On 28 May 2017 4:46 a.m., "Russell Standish" <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:
On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 09:24:31PM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: > > Regarding special relatively and collapse, I think the point is that two > observers in different reference frames can have different presents. Two > humans walking past each other on the sidewalk may have presents that > include the Andromeda Galaxy hours apart in time. (See "Andromeda > Paradox"). So if something on Earth collspses the wave everywhere and > instantly (in the present) which present is it collapsed in? > > I think this even more clearly shows the incompatibility between collapse > theories and special relatively, beyond just pointing to the FTL influences > as violations; this shows now we have to somehow use an objective reference > frame which relatively tells us does not exist. And this leads to collapse > events happening in different times/places for different observers, even > ones walking past each other on a sidewalk. > Forgetting about JC's peepee for the minute, ISTM that relativity is exclusively a 3p theory, whereas QM is both a 1pm and 3p theory. The 1p version of QM looks rather like Copenhagen, with wavefunction collapses, and the 3p looks more like Everett, with deterministic wave functions and many worlds. The incompatibility between relativity and wave function collapse can be seen as a manifestation of the incommensurate nature of the 1p/3p distinction. Isn't there an ineliminably 1p aspect of relativity in that here and now can only be defined with respect to a particular point of view? But perhaps you mean that this point of view can be described univocally in a purely 3p manner without the equivalent of 'collapse'. There is of course no provision in the formalism for 'counterfactual' continuations. Perhaps it's that limitation that makes it incommensurable with a QM that can be parsed in either way. David Cheers -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Senior Research Fellow hpco...@hpcoders.com.au Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
