[Philip Benjamin] There is a difference between mathematical proposition and mathematical operation. For example, quantum theory is a mathematical proposition, but Quantum interpretation such as "Collapse", "Many Worlds" etc. is philosophy/religion deserving no mathematical operation. Genetics can be subjected to mathematical operation, but Common Descent is a philosophical speculation beyond mathematics. So is the evidential Natural Selection. It can be subjected to mathematical analysis, but the un-evidential trans-speciation is philosophy beyond mathematics.
Philip Benjamin ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Is math real? On 20 Aug 2017, at 17:31, Philip Benjamin wrote: [Philip Benjamin] This is the wrong question, "not even wrong"!! The right question is "are the THINGS/SUBJECTS which mathematics deal with real? OK, we agree I think, but fundamentally, it is not even that, at least when we apply mathematics (in the natural science, or in metaphysics; theology, ...). It is "do you agree with this or that mathematical proposition". (followed by "agreement" on definitions). Now some mathematical proposition does not ask much, like most theorem in first order arithmetic (when the proof are not too long). Some propositions ask us more, like when using set theory, or set theory + the choice axiom. Some proposition asks for so much that we will never stop searching a proof, like Riemann hypothesis, which we know refutable in very elementary arithmetic in case it would be false. But the question "is math real" is often answered in the negative by the conventionalist (like Goethe, Perhaps Bergson, and the early positivist in math). In my opinion, this is not defensible, from a mathematical logical viewpoint, even before Gödel's theorem, and still much more non-defensible after. See my other post to David for some precision. The mathematical real is very vast, and it is normal some part are more doubtful than other parts. Some part are real, but only phenomenologically so, like with physics when we assume computationalism, as I explained often here. Bruno Best regards Philip Benjamin ________________________________ From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of David Nyman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:24 PM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Is math real? On 20 Aug 2017 2:46 p.m., "Bruno Marchal" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On 19 Aug 2017, at 01:21, David Nyman wrote: On 18 August 2017 at 18:13, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On 18 Aug 2017, at 15:39, David Nyman wrote: He points at a mug and says that 'representations' (meaning numbers) aren't to be confused with things themselves. He confuses a number and a possible representation of a number. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
