On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > With mechanism, we have to listen to all the copies.What you say is > contradicted by all your copies. > Is that it? Is that all you've got to say? It was a long post, what exactly was contradicted by ANY of the copies? Dis it turn out that the Moscow Man didn't see Moscow?? John K Clark > > > > On 04 Sep 2017, at 19:12, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> >>>> >> >>>> > But 3-1 you + 3-1 you = 2 3-1-you >>>> >>>> yes indeed. The key point is that 1-you + 1-you can give only one 1-you >>>> (+ a 3-1- >>>> .... >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> Homemade babytalk. >> >> > >> Not at all. It is only the nuances that we need to make the question >> precise. >> > > Nuance my ass! I know you like scientific sounding words like > "protocols" but all the peas in the world can't save "What one and only one > city will I see from *THE* 1p after I am duplicated and become 2?" from > being gibberish. No amount of peepee can put a shine on that poopoo. > > >> > >> You keep saying "the question is not precise", but you dismiss the >> precision >> > > There is ZERO precision. > > The fundamental problem is there is not even the hint of a explanation of > what "Your one and only one future 1p" means if Mr. You is about to enter > a you duplicating machine. And that's why peepee is poopoo. > > > >> See any of my previous explanation of 1p and 3p, >> > > I've been reading them for years and doing so again won't help, they've > been either circular, self contradictory, or just meaningless gibberish due > to the use of personal pronouns with no referent. Another problem is you > treat the future the same way you treat the past, but the two things are > different. > > >> > >> and if you don't undersand, ask a question. >> > > > OK I'll ask a > " > question > " > , what is the name of the one and only one city I will see from my one > and > only one > " > *THE* 1p > " > after I have become 2? You can't answer that, not because you don't know > the answer but because the answer does not exist before duplication > , > AND IT NEVER WILL EXIST, not even after duplication. And the reason there > will never be a > n > answer is there never was a > > question. > > > >> the point is that the H-man cannot know which of the W-man or the M-man >> he will find himself to be in the first person sense >> > > Pure, triple distilled, extra virgin, 100% gibberish. You ask "which" > and that means you want one and only one answer, but the H-man is about to > be duplicated, so nobody can answer that "question" before the duplication > AND NOBODY CAN ANSWER IT AFTER THE DUPLICATION EITHER. The H-man cannot > know the meaning of gibberish because gibberish has no meaning. > > >> > >> with not an atom of ambiguity, just an indeterminacy. >> > > > So "he" can't predict what city "he" will be in after the duplication, > fine, but who is "he"? If "he" is the Moscow man or the Washington man > > then > > it's true they can't predict it, because neither of them existed before > the duplication. If "he" is the Helsinki man then "he" CAN predict that the > Washington man will be the one that sees Washington and the Moscow man will > be the one that will see Moscow, I admit that's not very profound but it is > nevertheless true and there is nothing more to predict. > > But what about "THE 1p" I hear you say, that can't be predicted. Well > that's true, there is no way to predict it if the Moscow man or the > Washington man will get "THE 1p" if Mr. The1p has just gone threw a THE 1p > duplicating machine because then there is no such thing as THE 1p, there is > only A 1p. > > NEWS FLASH: I have just discovered, drum roll please, Tomato > Indeterminacy! There are 2 identical red tomatoes in front of you but you > are unable to pick up the one and only one red tomato in front of you. How > deep! I must be a philosophical genius for having discovered something that > profound! > > >> > the >> H-man is unable to write in his diary >> >> which specific city 1p-he will see, >> >> or he will 1p-see, despite being able to predict that he will see a >> specific city, >> > > Remember a long long time ago when Bruno Marchal was going on and on > about the virtues of precision? Please explain precisely what on earth a > unique " > 1p-he > " means in the context of the future and the availability of 1p-he > duplicating machines. > > > >> You continue to dismiss the 1p-experience of all the copies. >> > > Yes, I dismiss the idea that "THE 1p experience" exists after somebody > went threw a THE 1p experience duplicating machine because I can see no > reason why one of the copies subjective experience would be the one true > one and be more legitimate than the other; > but I do NOT dismiss the idea that "A 1p experience" exists. > > > > >> Just answer the question clearly one time, then >> >> Do you agree that the H-man can predict that he (in the 1p sense) will >> [...] >> > > This is a question about the future, about what will happen to Mr. > H-maninthe1-psence, so John Clark is not going to agree to anything until > Bruno Marchal explains what " > he > i > n the 1p sense > " means tomorrow if "he in the 1p sense" > is going to be duplicated today. > > It's always the same > , > in all "explanations" Bruno Marchal either uses personal pronouns o > r > peepee, and neither has a particle of meaning in a world with people > duplicating machines. > When pressed > Bruno Marchal > defines pronouns in terms of peepee and peepee in terms of pronouns, and > round and round we go. > > >> > >> drink a cup of coffee with certainty (modulo all default hypotheses, and >> assuming of course that a cup of coffee will be given to both copies)? >> > > Explain who you want information about and I'll give you an answer. Do > you want to know about the coffee drinking habits of people who remember > seeing Helsinki only? Or people who remember seeing Helsinki and Moscow? Or > people who remember seeing Helsinki and Washington? > Or people who remember > being John Clark? > Or people who remember something else? > > > > I'm not being pedantic, if both the future and people duplicating machines > are involved then these are essential distinctions or gibberish awaits. For > example, if Mr. He means people who remember being in Helsinki only then > Mr. He will drink no coffee at all, if Mr. He means John Clark then Mr. He > will drink coffee in Moscow AND Washington. > > John K Clark > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. 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