On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 7:23:48 AM UTC, [email protected] wrote: > > > > On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 7:12:09 AM UTC, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> On 27 November 2017 at 17:54, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:45:43 AM UTC, stathisp wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 27 November 2017 at 17:36, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:30:34 AM UTC, [email protected] >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:21:30 AM UTC, stathisp wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27 November 2017 at 16:54, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 5:48:58 AM UTC, [email protected] >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 5:44:25 AM UTC, stathisp wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 27 November 2017 at 16:25, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 5:07:03 AM UTC, stathisp wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 November 2017 at 13:33, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You keep ignoring the obvious 800 pound gorilla in the room; >>>>>>>>>>>>> introducing Many Worlds creates hugely more complications than it >>>>>>>>>>>>> purports >>>>>>>>>>>>> to do away with; multiple, indeed infinite observers with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same memories >>>>>>>>>>>>> and life histories for example. Give me a break. AG >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What about a single, infinite world in which everything is >>>>>>>>>>>> duplicated to an arbitrary level of detail, including the Earth >>>>>>>>>>>> and its >>>>>>>>>>>> inhabitants, an infinite number of times? Is the bizarreness of >>>>>>>>>>>> this idea >>>>>>>>>>>> an argument for a finite world, ending perhaps at the limit of >>>>>>>>>>>> what we can >>>>>>>>>>>> see? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --stathis Papaioannou >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> FWIW, in my view we live in huge, but finite, expanding >>>>>>>>>>> hypersphere, meaning in any direction, if go far enough, you return >>>>>>>>>>> to your >>>>>>>>>>> starting position. Many cosmologists say it's flat and thus >>>>>>>>>>> infinite; not >>>>>>>>>>> asymptotically flat and therefore spatially finite. Measurements >>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>> distinguish the two possibilities. I don't buy the former since >>>>>>>>>>> they also >>>>>>>>>>> concede it is finite in age. A Multiverse might exist, and that >>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> likely be infinite in space and time, with erupting BB universes, >>>>>>>>>>> some like >>>>>>>>>>> ours, most definitely not. Like I said, FWIW. AG >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OK, but is the *strangeness* of a multiverse with multiple copies >>>>>>>>>> of everything *in itself* an argument against it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Stathis Papaioannou >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> FWIW, I don't buy the claim that an infinite multiverse implies >>>>>>>>> infinite copies of everything. Has anyone proved that? AG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If there are uncountable possibilities for different universes, why >>>>>>>> should there be any repetitions? I don't think infinite repetitions >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> been proven, and I don't believe it. AG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If a finite subset of the universe has only a finite number of >>>>>>> configurations and the Cosmological Principle is correct, then every >>>>>>> finite >>>>>>> subset should repeat. It might not; for example, from a radius of >>>>>>> 10^100 m >>>>>>> out it might be just be vacuum forever, or Donald Trump dolls. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Stathis Papaioannou >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Our universe might be finite, but the parameter variations of >>>>>> possible universes might be uncountable. If so, there's no reason to >>>>>> think >>>>>> the parameters characterizing our universe will come again in a random >>>>>> process. AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Think of it this way; if our universe is represented by some number on >>>>> the real line, and you throw darts randomly at something isomorphic to >>>>> the >>>>> real line, what's the chance of the dart landing on the number >>>>> representing >>>>> our universe?. ANSWER: ZERO. AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> But the structures we may be interested in are finite. I feel that I am >>>> the same person from moment to moment despite multiple changes in my body >>>> that are grossly observable, so changes in the millionth decimal place of >>>> some parameter won't bother me. The dart has to land on a blob, not on a >>>> real number. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Stathis Papaioannou >>>> >>> >>> Don't you like thought experiments? I have shown that the parameters of >>> our universe won't come up in a random process if the possibilities are >>> uncountable (and possibly even if they're countable). Maybe you prefer a >>> theory where Joe the Plumber shoots a single electron at a double slit and >>> creates an uncountable number of identical universe except for the >>> variation in outcomes. Does this make more sense to you? AG >>> >> > >> But the possibilities are not infinite if we only want to reproduce a >> finite structure with finite precision. >> > > To get a universe anything like ours, the space of multiverse > possibilities seems plausibly uncountable. Doesn't matter if our universe > is conjectured as finite. It just wouldn't come up in a random process. AG >
Correction: To get a universe anything like ours, INSOFAR AS the space of multiverse possibilities seems plausibly uncountable, IT doesn't matter if our universe is conjectured as finite. It just wouldn't come up in a random process. AG > >> >> -- >> Stathis Papaioannou >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
