On 11/26/2017 10:45 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 27 November 2017 at 17:36, <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:30:34 AM UTC,
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:21:30 AM UTC, stathisp wrote:
On 27 November 2017 at 16:54, <[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 5:48:58 AM UTC,
[email protected] wrote:
On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 5:44:25 AM UTC,
stathisp wrote:
On 27 November 2017 at 16:25,
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 5:07:03 AM
UTC, stathisp wrote:
On 26 November 2017 at 13:33,
<[email protected]> wrote:
You keep ignoring the obvious 800
pound gorilla in the room;
introducing Many Worlds creates
hugely more complications than it
purports to do away with;
multiple, indeed infinite
observers with the same memories
and life histories for example.
Give me a break. AG
What about a single, infinite world in
which everything is duplicated to an
arbitrary level of detail, including
the Earth and its inhabitants, an
infinite number of times? Is the
bizarreness of this idea an argument
for a finite world, ending perhaps at
the limit of what we can see?
--stathis Papaioannou
FWIW, in my view we live in huge, but
finite, expanding hypersphere, meaning in
any direction, if go far enough, you
return to your starting position. Many
cosmologists say it's flat and thus
infinite; not asymptotically flat and
therefore spatially finite. Measurements
cannot distinguish the two possibilities.
I don't buy the former since they also
concede it is finite in age. A Multiverse
might exist, and that would likely be
infinite in space and time, with erupting
BB universes, some like ours, most
definitely not. Like I said, FWIW. AG
OK, but is the *strangeness* of a multiverse
with multiple copies of everything *in itself*
an argument against it?
--
Stathis Papaioannou
FWIW, I don't buy the claim that an infinite
multiverse implies infinite copies of everything.
Has anyone proved that? AG
If there are uncountable possibilities for different
universes, why should there be any repetitions? I
don't think infinite repetitions has been proven, and
I don't believe it. AG
If a finite subset of the universe has only a finite
number of configurations and the Cosmological Principle is
correct, then every finite subset should repeat. It might
not; for example, from a radius of 10^100 m out it might
be just be vacuum forever, or Donald Trump dolls.
--
Stathis Papaioannou
Our universe might be finite, but the parameter variations of
possible universes might be uncountable. If so, there's no
reason to think the parameters characterizing our universe
will come again in a random process. AG
Think of it this way; if our universe is represented by some
number on the real line, and you throw darts randomly at something
isomorphic to the real line, what's the chance of the dart landing
on the number representing our universe?. ANSWER: ZERO. AG
But the structures we may be interested in are finite. I feel that I
am the same person from moment to moment despite multiple changes in
my body that are grossly observable, so changes in the millionth
decimal place of some parameter won't bother me. The dart has to land
on a blob, not on a real number.
Right. And a "universe" is not a well defined thing at the quantum
level. The "splitting" of Everett's MWI is a statistical
approximation. Zurek makes it sharp by saying that a repeated
measurement (of the first kind) must return the same value. But I think
that is just a way of imposing the thermodynamic limit on the statistics.
Brent
--
Stathis Papaioannou
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