On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 8:35:50 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 2:03:07 AM UTC, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On 12/12/2017 12:29 pm, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 1:25:11 AM UTC, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/12/2017 12:18 pm, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 1:04:08 AM UTC, Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/12/2017 11:44 am, smitra wrote:
>>>> > On 11-12-2017 23:15, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>>>> >> On 12/12/2017 1:12 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>> >>> On 10 Dec 2017, at 23:38, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 11/12/2017 2:19 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On 09 Dec 2017, at 00:03, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> On 9/12/2017 4:21 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> Similarly, a shroedinger car, once alive + dead, will never
>>>> >>>>>>> become a pure alive, or dead cat. It will only seems so for
>>>> >>>>>>> anyone looking at the cat, in the {alive, dead} base/apparatus.
>>>> >>>>>>> Superposition never disappear, and a coin moree or less with a
>>>> >>>>>>> precise position, is always a superposition of a coin with more
>>>> >>>>>>> or less precise momenta. The relation is given by the Fourier
>>>> >>>>>>> transforms, which gives the relative accessible states/worlds.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> I pointed out that for a macroscopic object such as a coin, the
>>>> >>>>>> uncertainty relations give uncertainties in positions and/or
>>>> >>>>>> momentum far below any level of possible detection.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Of possible practical detection. That is good FAPP, but
>>>> irrelevant
>>>> >>>>> for theoretical consideration.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> This is a purely rhetorical objection, Bruno. And when you trot
>>>> >>>> this out, as you do regularly, I know that your purpose is to
>>>> >>>> obfuscate, and hide the fact that you have no rational argument to
>>>> >>>> offer.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> You confuse physics and metaphysics. The difference is not
>>>> >>> rhetorical, but fundamental in this thread.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rubbish. The central point of contention on this thread is whether a
>>>> >> coin toss can be regarded as a classical event, with probabilities
>>>> >> given by ignorance of the initial conditions, or as a quantum event
>>>> >> with probabilities given by purely quantum uncertainties.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This is a straightforward question of physics, and has nothing to do
>>>> >> with metaphysics. As usual, you introduce the term 'metaphysics'
>>>> >> merely to obfuscate, because you have no intelligent response to the
>>>> >> clear physics of the situation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > That the probabilities are given by classical physics does not imply
>>>> > that there is no branching due to the coin toss.
>>>>
>>>> It does, because there is no superposition of head/tails -- no
>>>> possibility of interference between heads and tails.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why no inference? Is it because the coin isn't an isolated system, which
>>> IIUC is a necessary condition for interference? AG
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not a coherent superposition. Do an experiment and see if there is
>>> interference. Is Schrödinger's cat dear or alive?
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>
>> What are the necessary conditions for interference?
>>
>>
>> Coherent superposition.
>>
>> For the cat, I have no clue how to do that experiment. Do you? AG
>>
>>
>> No. Nor for the coin toss.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>
> If a system is in a coherent superposition, which means interference
> exists, and smitra claims the coin is in a superposition of, presumably,
> heads and tails, doesn't he have the obligation to indicate what the
> probability distribution will look like, or how to do an experiment to show
> it? AG
>
As you suggested, superposition for the coin is similar to superposition
for the cat. However, in the latter case, it is assumed that the cat
inherits its superposition from the radioactive source. What is the
superposition and more important the interference for the radioactive
source, which like the coin and cat has a binary outcome? AG
s
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
