On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 6:48:56 PM UTC-7, agrays...@gmail.com 
wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 5:27:39 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/7/2018 4:38 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: 
>> > To summarize the argument: 
>> > 
>> > 1. A sufficiently advanced civilization is bound to become a galactic 
>> > civilization; 
>> > 2. We do not observe a galactic civilization; 
>> > 3. If other instances of life are found, this means that life is not so 
>> rare; 
>> > 4. So it is likely that there is a major obstacle that prevents a 
>> > civilization from becoming galactic, and this filter is likely to be 
>> > ahead of us. 
>> > 
>> > It's an interesting argument but I think it is based on some rather 
>> > strong assumptions: 
>> > 
>> > (a) That becoming a galactic civilization is possible; 
>> > (b) That becoming a galactic civilization is desirable; 
>> > (c) That galactic civilizations are observable by us. 
>> > 
>> > Firstly we don't know if there's an upper limit for technological 
>> > progress, or where that limit could be. Maybe interstellar travel or 
>> > the colonization of other planets will never be feasible. 
>>
>> That would be my bet.  Galaxies are big and light is slow, and we're a 
>> lot slower. 
>>
>> Brent 
>>
>
> *I agree. In empires of our historical experience, Persia, Greece, Rome, 
> and into the modern era, the motivation was virtually always economic; 
> securing scare resources and establishing trade routes. If the SoL is a 
> limiting speed, I see no motivation for advanced beings to establish a 
> galactic empire. AG *
>

*Moreover, if they seek Earth-like planets in the habitable zone, there 
must be plenty in existence where human life, perhaps any life other than 
the most primitive, hasn't evolved. So, I don't see them trying to exploit 
Earth inhabiting humanity. AG *

>
>> > Secondly, we 
>> > are assuming a lot about a civilization that would be dramatically 
>> > ahead of us both culturally and technologically. Maybe galactic 
>> > civilization is a silly goal, and we don't even have the mental 
>> > constructs to comprehend why or what the good goal would be. Finally, 
>> > maybe a galactic civilization does exist but does not wish to be 
>> > detected by the likes of us. 
>> > 
>> > I would say that there are too many unknowns for which we don't know 
>> > how to assign probabilities. 
>> > 
>> > Telmo. 
>> > 
>> > On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 6:20 PM, John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtOGPJ0URM 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>   John K Clark 
>>
>>

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