On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 5:58:04 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> It occurred to me a case of hard emergence. The outcome of a quantum
> measurement is such. I have iterated how I think this is connected to
> self-reference, so I will not repeat that here.
It would be useful IMO, if you did just that. How can random measurement
results be connected with "self referential", whatever that means? A good
idea, sometimes even a bad one, is worth repeating for evaluation. AG
> However, the outcome is completely random and has no causal basis. It
> emerges for no particular reason, such as initial conditions, and is as I
> see it a complete hard emergence.
> On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 1:16:58 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 6:28 AM, Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>> You might try to give at least one example of hard emergence
>> One molecule of water can't be wet but 6.02*10^ 23 molecules can be. And
>> H2O at 31 degrees F has none of the properties of a liquid but at 33
>> degrees F those same molecules have all the properties of a liquid;
>> although usually emergent properties don't appear as
>> suddenly as that, it is more smooth and continuous. Day is very different
>> from night but there isn't an exact point where one turns into the other.
>> There is nothing mysterious
>> miraculous going on its just that human language puts concepts into
>> groups called "words" but the real world is messy
>> there are often intermediate
>> cases where its not clear what the correct word should be; an
>> 80 pound man is clearly thin
>> and a 800 pound man is clearly fat but there are values between those
>> extremes where reasonable people can differ on what the correct word should
>> John K Clark
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