On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Lawrence Crowell <
*> Even if you have a mole of nanobots doing things, who is keeping track
> of them to make sure they are doing what you want? *
by a huge number of nanobots (also called proteins) in just 9 months. And
those nanobots were themselves constructed by other nanobots using
information in DNA. There was no understanding involved in any of this,
nobody was keeping
of it all and yet it worked. You are far more complex than a Dyson Sphere
so if something like DNA and proteins, which are dumb as dirt, can make
something as complex as you I don't see why a super intelligence would be
unable to make a simple Dyson Sphere.
* > In fact this becomes Turing's thesis on the impossibility of a
> Universal Turing Machine on steroids.*
Turing prove there are some functions that a computer can't evaluate and
some real numbers (most of them actually) that can't even be approximated.
But computers aren't the only thing that has this limitation, humans can't
do any of those things either and in fact
no physical process has ever been found that can figure out what a Turing
Machine can't; and yet enormously complex things still exist in the
And Turing also proved that in general if you want to know what a computer
will do next all you can do is watch it and see; and long before Turing it
was known that in general you can't know for sure what you are going to do
next until you actually do it.
*> **even if you have that massive computing system who is keeping track
> of the algorithms to make sure it is doing what you want and so forth.*
Computers will always make mistakes
humans make mistakes too but that doesn't prevent them from getting things
By the way, you indicated you were a fan of t
but now you seem to be saying humans are special after all because they
are as smart as things can get, if something is too complex for humans to
use it will forever be too complex for anything to use. And I still don't
understand what's so complex about a Dyson Sphere.
After all, spheres are symmetrical so if you know how to make one small
part of it you know how to make the entire thing, now you just need to put
in the effort and actually do it. And if you have 6.02*10^23 hands you can
complete it in a reasonable amount of time.
> *> Already we are getting some problematic news with self-driving cars.
> Remember a test driver. or in a way un-driver, was killed not long ago
> because the algorithm failed to react properly to certain conditions.*
That was 2 years ago and since then 2.6 million people were killed by
human drivers worldwide. And the incident you refer to didn't happen in a
driverless car, the Tesla just had a autopilot, a sort of super duper
cruise control, and it was never intended to be used without human
oversight, although the "driver" apparently treated it as if it was and was
not paying attention and died as a result. True driverless cars have a
superb driving record and have never killed anyone, Google's driverless
cars have driven 1.8 million real world miles and only had 13 accidents,
all of them fender benders and all of them caused by other cars with human
> >* *
> *Complexity explodes enormously and the designers become unable to
> understand or control their systems.*
Humans understand the complex things they make one hell of a lot better
than DNA and proteins
understand the complex things
> >* *
> *there are a lot of humans who are completely insane, and frankly we have
> put one in the White House.*
You'll get no argument from me about that! T
rump is not only insane he's stupid. Maybe that's why we can't find ET,
sooner or later every civilization gets the equivalent of Mr. Donald (my
nuclear button is bigger than yours) Trump.
* > This may then be one reason there are no massive astrophysical
> engineered objects out there; the amount of information necessary to build
> and control such things is far beyond any tractable computing system.*
That is just not true.
In the entire human genome there are only 3 billion base pairs. There are 4
bases so each base can represent 2 bits, there are 8 bits per byte so that
comes out to 750 meg. Just 750 meg, that's about the same amount of
information as a old CD disk could hold
when they first came out
35 years ago! And the 750 meg isn't even efficiently coded, there is a
ridiculous amount of redundancy in the human genome.
And yet that
amount of information was enough to reshape the surface of a planet. And
there is more to come, I think that information could grow and reshape the
entire galaxy, if it doesn't stagnate or destroy itself first.
John K Clark
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