On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 9:57:37 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> On 10 Feb 2018, at 14:29, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
> On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 8:05:09 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>> On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 5:58:04 PM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>> It occurred to me a case of hard emergence. The outcome of a quantum 
>>> measurement is such. I have iterated how I think this is connected to 
>>> self-reference, so I will not repeat that here. 
>> It would be useful IMO, if you did just that. How can random measurement 
>> results be connected with "self referential", whatever that means? A good 
>> idea, sometimes even a bad one, is worth repeating for evaluation. AG
> I have outlined on this forum how a quantum measurement is really where 
> quantum states measure quantum states. This is then self-referential and 
> the odd properties of quantum measurement may then be due to the emergence 
> or occurrence of principles outside of causal principles of quantum 
> mechanics.
> It has to be like that if we assume mechanics, and indeed we recover 
> quantum logic at the place we expect a logic for the first person plural 
> observable of the machine. Physics can no more be the fundamental science, 
> it becomes a branch of computer science, or better, of the “theology of 
> number” (itself a branch of pure number theory).
> Bruno

Or as a quote from a person named Butterfield I read earlier today is 
paraphrased as "Mathematics is the syntax of the world, while physics is 
the semantics of it." There is an open question on Lob's theorem, where 
this has a modal construction called semantic soundness. In the case of 
state reduction or why we observe certain outcomes we might just be faced 
with this as a hard emergence that has no causal or prior reason for being. 
There is no derived reason for it, but it just is.


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