> On 18 Feb 2018, at 18:54, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:11:38 AM UTC-7, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
> On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 4:25:07 AM UTC-6, Russell Standish wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 05:19:22PM -0800, Brent Meeker wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > On 2/17/2018 4:58 PM, agrays...@gmail.com <> wrote: 
> > > But what is the criterion when AI exceeds human intelligence? AG 
> > > 
> > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-16/father-artificial-intelligence-singularity-less-30-years-away
> > >  
> > > <https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-16/father-artificial-intelligence-singularity-less-30-years-away>
> > >  
> > 
> > So we need to sharpen the question.  Exactly *what* is 30yrs away? 
> > 
> > Brent 
> > 
> 
> According to the title (I haven't RTFA), it's the 
> singularity. Starting from a point where a machine designs, 
> and manufactures improved copies of itself, technology will supposedly 
> veer from it's exponential path (Moore's law) etc to hyperbolic. Being 
> hyperbolic, it reaches infinity within a finite period of time, 
> expected to be a matter of months perhaps. 
> 
> Given that we really don't understand creative processes (not even 
> good old fashioned biological evolution is really well understood), 
> I'm sceptical about the 30 years prognostication. It is mostly based on 
> extrapolating Moore's law, which is the easy part of technological change. 
> 
> This won't be a problem for my children - my grandchildren perhaps, if 
> I ever end up having any. 
> 
> Cheers 
> 
> One thing a computer can not do is ask a question. I can ask a question and 
> program a computer to help solve the problem. In fact I am doing a program to 
> do just this. I am working a computer program to model aspects of 
> gravitational memory. What the computer will not do, at least computers we 
> currently employ will not do is to ask the question and then work to solve 
> it. A computer can find a numerical solution or render something numerically, 
> but it does not spontaneously act to ask the question or to propose something 
> creative to then solve or render the solution.
> 
> LC 
> 
> You've hit the proverbial nail on the head. If a computer can't ask a 
> question, it can't, by itself, add to our knowledge. It can't propose a new 
> theory. It can only be a tool for humans to test our theories. Thus, it is 
> completely a misnomer to refer to it as "intelligent".  AG


But when we listen to the (Löbian) machine, which already exist (to be sure), 
we got already many questions, in fact much more question than answer, which 
means, indeed, that they are already intelligent.

The universal machine is born maximally incompetent and intelligent. By getting 
more competent, it becomes less intelligent. The singularity is in the past, 
and the new singularity is when the machine will be as stupid as the humans 
being, if we have not destroy the planet before.

Bruno



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