> On 24 Feb 2018, at 00:36, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 11:12:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 23 Feb 2018, at 17:15, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >> The MH spacetime in the case of the Kerr metric does permit an observer in >> principle to witness an infinite stream of bits or qubits up to the inner >> horizon r_- that is continuous with I^+ in the exterior spacetime. This >> means due to spacetime effects one could witness the diagonalization in a >> Zeno machine context. For instance a switch that is switched one in one >> second, off the next half second, on in the next quarter second and so forth >> will presumably have a final state. However, what does prevent this in a >> fundamental way is that a switch flipped in this chirped frequency will >> diverge in energy and become a black hole before returning a result. We >> could of course avoid the black hole with a ball that bounces, but of course >> one does not get an infinite number of little bounces at the end. Because of >> this an observer could in principle witness a universal Turing machine >> emulate all possible Turing machines. Thinking according to TMs is for me a >> bit simpler, but this does illustrate one could get around Godel. > > I am not sure the observer should not be itself implemented in the MH, and > its first person perspective might not allow him to see the TM emulating all > TMs. But even if it did, that would only be the implementation of a halting > algorithm, which overcome the Turing limitations, but not the Gödel one: you > will only get the sigma_truth completely, but “time” itself is such an > oracle, and again, I am not sure if such an observer does not, from its > personal point of view, have to live an infinite life to assess the result. > But I have looked at the MH paper a long time ago, so take this with caution. > Note that Gödel incompleteness cannot be escaped by *any* means, even > infinite means, unless you directly refer to the semantics, which is not an > effective process. > > > >> >> However, quantum mechanics as I illustrate seems to throw a spanner in the >> works. This breaks the continuity between r_- and I_+. It also means the >> inner horizon is built from quantum fields from the exterior in ways that >> generates a mass inflation singularity. This is interesting to ponder with >> respect to the connection between quantum mechanics and general relativity. > > Yes, very interesting. > > > >> In fact I think the two are simply aspects of the same thing. This means in >> some way the incompleteness theorems of Godel are involved with the >> foundations of physics. > > Very glad to hear that. > Note that with Mechanism, incompleteness is responsible for the whole set of > accessible phenomenologies including the physical one, so yes, it is hoped > that physicists will someday study incompleteness (in a more serious (valid) > way than Penrose which has detracted many physicists from Gödel, and many > logicians from physics). > > Bruno > > In effect quantum mechanics enters into the picture of MH spacetimes to > prevent physics from providing a loop hole out of Godel's theorem.
That seems very interesting. If you have a link on this. It would help the derivation of the quantum from arithmetic, and possibly for the derivation of the GR too. It reminds me Bohr's use of GR to solve an attempt by Einstein to refute the energy/time “uncertainty” relation (I am sure you know it). It seems to me to make QM implying GR, at some level, but I have not been able to do effectively. Bruno > > LC > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
