> On 26 Mar 2018, at 00:07, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I am more interested in the graph theoretic issues with NP-completeness for > other reasons than I am in this question of uploading minds into computers. > The latter I think is largely science fiction.
It is an hypothesis in the cognitive science, and it comes from. Molecular biology but also physics where the laws are computable. It is up to those who assert the opposite thesis to show what is not Church-Turing computable in the brain (or generalised brain: the portion of the physical reality needed to enacted your consciousness). Indexical Digital Mechanism is not compatible with physicalism. The physical laws are the border of the Universal Mind associated with the universal Person that incompleteness enforces on any self-referentially correct machine with respect to its most plausible computations in arithmetic. I am interest in the fundamental question. > I am more interested in questions of quantum information and the > compatibility of quantum mechanics and general relativity. That too. And they origin, which with mechanism is mainly Number Theoretical, although this includes intensional number theory which is computer science (in the base of very elementary arithmetic). There is only 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, …. And crazy truth, like 3^2 + 4^2 = 5^2, or 3^3 + 4^3 + 5^3 = 6^3, … And even crazier truth like “if I will never say f, then I will never been able to justify why I will never say f. (With f your favorite mathematical falsity, like 4^4 + 5^5 + 6^6 + 7^7 = 8^8. > > My reasoning for not doing this is not about being "deader," but in terms of > money. To be honest this borders on sounding like a scam, and I can imagine > that con-men have concocted this scheme to part people from their money. Sure > it might be based on a bit of science and technology, but I could easily see > this as being some sort of scam. The cryonics movement has produced nothing, > but people continue to pay into it. It means that the pioneers of technological, which procrastinate Nirvana and prolongate technologically the Samsara, will indeed prolongates the suffering, but it is their choices, and it will be the one of everybody in the next fews Millenia, and beyond. I study only the mathematical consequences of an hypothesis, using the very enlightening Plato vocabulary and definitions. At first it makes the mind-body problem two times more difficult, as it requires not only the usual explanation for the mind/consciousness, but it requires the complete explanation of the physical “illusion” (to use a shorter word that “phenomenology”). The mechanist explanation appears to be at the antipode of materialism/physicalism. There is a deeper explanation like the first person differentiation on all relative computational histories (which exists in very elementary arithmetic(*)). By very elementary arithmetic I mean: classical logic + 0 ≠ s(x) s(x) = s(y) -> x = y x = 0 v Ey(x = s(y)) x+0 = x x+s(y) = s(x+y) x*0=0 x*s(y)=(x*y)+x By elementary arithmetic, I mean the usual first order arithmetic which is the very elementary one with some induction axioms, like Peano arithmetic or consistent extensions of it. I could use the combinators K, S, (K K), (K S), … (K (K S)) … ((K S) (S S)) … instead, but most people find easier to believe in the absoluteness of 2 + 2 = 4 than ((K K) K) = K. (Which is true as a consequence of ((K x) y) = x). But the two axioms: ((K x) y) x (((S x) y) z) = ((x z)(y z)) Together with few identity rules, are enough. (That is, even without classical logic). God made the Numbers, all the rest is Number’s science-fiction! (Grin). Bruno > > LC > > On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 11:16:03 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com > <javascript:>> wrote: > > > This further might connect with the whole idea of up-loading minds into > > computers. Brains and their states are not just localized states but > > networks, and it could well be that this is not tractable. > > If the brain is a network it is a network with a finite number of vertices > and a finite number of lines connecting those vertices. For uploading you’re > not trying to optimize or do anything with the network except to just list > all the lines and vertices in a network that already exists. You don’t need > to find some exotic new algorithm that can solve NP complete problems in > polynomial time to do that, you just need a few trillion nano-machines that > can feel around inside a brain and report back on what they’ve discovered. > And as I said before, even if a general class of problems has been proven to > be difficult that just means some specific examples of it are, it doesn’t > mean all or even most are and in fact some could be quite easy. In general > factoring large numbers is hard and 2^1000 is huge but it would be remarkably > easy to factor. > > There is another thing that confuses me, you seem to be implying nobody > should engage in Cryonics unless it has been proven with mathematical > certainty to work, and that doesn’t seem wise to me unless you know of a > reason that being frozen will make me deader than being eaten by worms. > > > As a general rule once these threads gets past 100 I tend not to post any > > more. It becomes to annoying to find my way around them. > > I can sympathize, I’ve been complaining about that for years, but the problem > really isn’t 100 posts its that most people refuse to trim anything when they > respond so you end up with a vast iterated sea of quotes of quote of quotes > of quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes and its very hard to tell > who said what. Its frustrating to scroll down through page after page of > quotes only to be rewarded at the end with one cryptic new line like “that’s > not true”. > > John K Clark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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