> On 1 May 2018, at 18:13, 'scerir' via Everything List > <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > >> Il 1 maggio 2018 alle 17.36 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> ha scritto: >> >> >>> On 29 Apr 2018, at 08:21, 'scerir' via Everything List < >>> everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> IMO Schroedinger invented this manyworlds or manyminds or manywords >>> interpretation. >>> >> >> The quote below seems to indicate that this is not the case, unless you >> agree (with me, and Deutsch, …) that QM *is* the discovery of the many >> superposed worlds/states/minds, and that the founder added the collapse >> postulate ONLY to avoid the proliferation of the alternate >> worlds/states/minds. > > Yes, I can agree with that. But it is possible there was, in those years, > another issue too. I mean conservation of energy. It is not possible, in > general, to preserve conservation of energy in each universe during the > split-decoherence, especially in case of superposition of states of different > energy. In this special case energy increase in one universe and decrease in > another universe. >
The conservation of energy seems to me to be a classical, and mainly statistical notion. I do not see why the many-universes would violate thermodynamics in any branches, given that, by linearity of evolution, each branch evolves independently of the others, and the branches can only interfere, statistically, from the first person perspective of the observer. I am not even sure how we could superpose two states with different energy. May be you could explain me this. Bruno >> Everett is just the guy who realise that the MW does not leads to a jelly >> quagmire of everything, by taking the first person view (what he called >> subjective) of the observers, as their memories get as much quasi orthogonal >> that the results they could have attributed to a collapse. The collapse, and >> the irreversibility is purely “subjective” (first person) and irreversible >> in principle for *us*. To reverse the entire universal wave, we would need >> to go outside the physical universe in some practical way, which, needless >> to say, is rather difficult. >> >> But I do agree with you, Schroedinger and Einstein understood that the >> collapse was a problem for the rest of physics and philosophy. They were >> rightly skeptical that Bohr and Heisenberg got the whole thing. Would have >> they like Everett? Bohr just threw Everett out of his home, I have read >> somewhere. I think Einstein would have prefer it to anything involving an >> action at a distance, like Bohm’s theory (non local hidden variable theory). >> Indeed, as you all know, Einstein told that he would have prefered to be a >> plumber than be involved in a theory with some action-at-a distance. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >>>> Il 28 aprile 2018 alle 23.01 agrayson2...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:agrayson2...@gmail.com> ha scritto: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 5:55:16 AM UTC, scerir wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think Schroedinger and his cat bear some responsibility. In trying to >>>>> debunk Born's probabilistic interpretation he appealed to the absurdity >>>>> of observation changing the physical state...even though no one had >>>>> actually proposed that. >>>>> >>>>> Brent >>>>> >>>> >>>> “The idea that the alternate measurement outcomes be not alternatives but >>>> all really happening simultaneously seems lunatic to the quantum theorist, >>>> just impossible. He thinks that if the laws of nature took this form for, >>>> let me say, a quarter of an hour, we should find our surroundings rapidly >>>> turning into a quagmire, a sort of a featureless jelly or plasma, all >>>> contours becoming blurred, we ourselves probably becoming jelly fish. It >>>> is strange that he should believe this. For I understand he grants that >>>> unobserved nature does behave this way – namely according to the wave >>>> equation. . . . according to the quantum theorist, nature is prevented >>>> from rapid jellification only by our perceiving or observing it.” >>>> >>>> -Erwin Schroedinger, The Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Dublin >>>> Seminars (1949-1955) and Other Unpublished Assays (Ox Bow Press, >>>> Woodbridge, Connecticut, 1995). >>>> >>>> >>>> Who is Schrodinger referring to? This was written before 1957, when >>>> Everett published his MWI.? Were other theorists advancing the idea that >>>> all alternatives are physically manifested in reality? AG >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> > > >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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