On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". 
>>
>> (Derrida, Rorty, …)
>>
>>
>> That would make Derrida and Rorty into obscurantism. Confirmation does 
>> not make an idea true, but it is better than nothing, once we postulate 
>> some reality.
>>
>> Some “philosophies” prevents the scientific attitude, like some 
>> “religions” do, although only when they are used for that purpose.  Some 
>> philosophies vindicate  their lack of rigour into a principle. That leads 
>> to relativisme, and obscurantism. It looks nice as anyone can defend any 
>> idea, but eventually it hurts in front of the truth.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
> Have you read some of the Opinions* or watched some of the (youtube) 
> lectures of Rutgers math professor Doron Zeilberger?
>
> I've been following him like forever.
>
> * e.g.
>
>    - *Mathematics is so useful because physical scientists and engineers 
>    have the good sense to largely ignore the "religious" fanaticism of 
>    professional mathematicians, and their insistence on so-called rigor, that 
>    in many cases is misplaced and hypocritical, since it is based on "axioms" 
>    that are completely fictional, i.e. those that involve the so-called 
>    infinity.*
>
> Mechanism proves this. Arithmetic, without infinity axiom, even without 
> the induction axiom, is the “ontological things”. Induction axioms, 
> infinity, physics, humans, etc. belongs to the phenomenology. The 
> phenomenology is not less real, but its is not primary, it is second order, 
> and that fiction is needed to survive, even if fictionally. 
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
To experiential realists, phenomenal consciousness is a real thing.

To real (experiential) materialists (panpsychism), consciousness is 
intrinsic to matter (like electric charge, etc.). So that would make 
consciousness primary.


https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/

- pt

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