> On 11 Feb 2019, at 01:24, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/10/2019 3:34 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Two recent books:
>> 
>> The First Minds: Caterpillars, Karyotes, and Consciousness
>> Arthur S. Reber
>> https://books.google.com/books/about/The_First_Minds.html?id=RBLEugEACAAJ
>> 
>> Brain-Mind: From Neurons to Consciousness and Creativity
>> Paul Thagard
>> https://books.google.com/books/about/Brain_Mind.html?id=jJjHvAEACAAJ
>> 
>> via
>> When Did Consciousness Begin?
>> Paul Thagard
>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/hot-thought/201901/when-did-consciousness-begin
>> 
>> Thagard's 10 hypotheses:
>> 
>> 1. Consciousness has always existed, because God is conscious and eternal.
>> 
>> 2. Consciousness began when the universe formed, around 13.7 billion years 
>> ago.
>> 
>> 3. Consciousness began with single-celled life, around 3.7 billion years ago 
>> (Reber).
>> 
>> 4. Consciousness began with multicellular plants, around 850 million years 
>> ago.
>> 
>> 5. Consciousness began when animals such as jellyfish got thousands of 
>> neurons, around 580 million years ago.
>> 
>> 6. Consciousness began when insects and fish developed larger brains with 
>> about a million neurons (honeybees) or 10 million neurons (zebrafish) around 
>> 560 million years ago.
>> 
>> 7. Consciousness began when animals such as birds and mammals developed much 
>> larger brains with hundreds of millions neurons, around 200 million years 
>> ago. [Thagard]
>> 
>> 8. Consciousness began with humans, homo sapiens, around 200,000 years ago.
>> 
>> 9. Consciousness began when human culture became advanced, around 3000 years 
>> ago (Julian Jaynes).
>> 
>> 10. Consciousness does not exist, as it is just a scientific mistake 
>> (behaviorism} or a “user illusion” (Daniel Dennett).
> 
> A good exposition, but I wish he had taken some time to consider what is 
> consciousness.  I think he recognizes that there are different kinds and 
> levels of consciousness, but he doesn't make it clear what they are; how are 
> they related to memory and communication and planning.  It seems clear to me 
> that different kinds and levels of consciousness appeared at different times.


Are you OK that consciousness is, from the first person perspective, something 
which can be said to be

1) true
2) knowable
2) non provable
3) indubitable
4) non definable
5) anticipable

If yes, then all universal machine is confronted with this, although only 
Löbian machine can assert this, with precaution.

Consciousness is not much more than the first person belief in some reality. It 
accelerates the learning of distinguishing prey and predators for the 
self-moving self-eating types of creatures.

There are many possible experience of consciousness, and even sorts of state of 
consciousness, from highly dissociative, with or without amnesia, to many 
mundane state, like each of us at all instant of our normal waking life. It 
makes easy to get new beliefs and to abandon ancient beliefs. When Löbian, it 
generates “fear” (the local expectation of local unsatisfiabilty condition).

Bruno





> 
> Brent
> 
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