> On 11 Feb 2019, at 12:38, smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl> wrote: > > Consciousness began when "I" became conscious. But here I take into account > that at the very beginning of "my" consciousness, "my" identity was almost > undefined, so "I" refers to pretty much all conscious processes. > > The notion of a personal identity is not a fundamental concept, consciousness > exists independent of it. A subjective experience of a personal identity may > be contained in a conscious experience, but this isn't necessary, and it may > not correspond to a notion of identity based on physics.
OK. > > When I was born and before I knew that I lived in the late 1900s, the > consciousness I experienced corresponded to a very large ensemble of babies, > some of them would find themselves up on Earth as it existed hundreds of > years ago, some in the far future. Before I knew that dinosaurs had ever > existed, I was also a creature very similar to us here on Earth on a planet > where dinosaurs had never existed. Somehow. In the universe where the dinosaurs did never existed, you are still in the ocean! (I am joking, as this has no meaning at all, if you think twice). Yes personal identity is a bit of an illusion, and is independent of consciousness. But that illusion is hard to avoid once having a body, and is even needed to play the game of life, although it became an handicap and a source of suffering when taken too much seriously. It is difficult. The little ego can hide the higher self. Bruno > > Saibal > > On 11-02-2019 00:34, Philip Thrift wrote: >> Two recent books: >> The First Minds: Caterpillars, Karyotes, and Consciousness >> Arthur S. Reber >> https://books.google.com/books/about/The_First_Minds.html?id=RBLEugEACAAJ >> Brain-Mind: From Neurons to Consciousness and Creativity >> Paul Thagard >> https://books.google.com/books/about/Brain_Mind.html?id=jJjHvAEACAAJ >> via >> When Did Consciousness Begin? >> Paul Thagard >> https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/hot-thought/201901/when-did-consciousness-begin >> Thagard's 10 hypotheses: >> 1. Consciousness has always existed, because God is conscious and >> eternal. >> 2. Consciousness began when the universe formed, around 13.7 billion >> years ago. >> 3. Consciousness began with single-celled life, around 3.7 billion >> years ago (Reber). >> 4. Consciousness began with multicellular plants, around 850 million >> years ago. >> 5. Consciousness began when animals such as jellyfish got thousands of >> neurons, around 580 million years ago. >> 6. Consciousness began when insects and fish developed larger brains >> with about a million neurons (honeybees) or 10 million neurons >> (zebrafish) around 560 million years ago. >> 7. Consciousness began when animals such as birds and mammals >> developed much larger brains with hundreds of millions neurons, around >> 200 million years ago. [Thagard] >> 8. Consciousness began with humans, homo sapiens, around 200,000 years >> ago. >> 9. Consciousness began when human culture became advanced, around 3000 >> years ago (Julian Jaynes). >> 10. Consciousness does not exist, as it is just a scientific mistake >> (behaviorism} or a “user illusion” (Daniel Dennett). >> - pt >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to >> firstname.lastname@example.org. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout . >> Links: >> ------ >>  https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>  https://groups.google.com/d/optout > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.