On 2/14/2019 3:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 14 Feb 2019, at 06:44, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:



On 2/12/2019 5:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
If we could knew which machine we are, we could define consciousness, or at 
least our personal current consciousness, as it would be defined by the 
combinator realising us. But that is impossible, and it defines only mechanism 
and the choice we might make for our substitution level.
But when we build AI's we will know which machine they are.

In theory yes, and we can be sure of its theology if the machine is sensibly 
less complex than us.

I don't understand that.  "We" in the collective sense build lots of things that no one of us understands (e.g. Boeing 747), but "we" understand it.

But the machine itself will not believe us, or understand this.

Why not?  It can't prove what algorithm it is, but it can know that we know...so why would it disbelieve us.

Then in practice, the machine will transform itself very quickly,

Wild speculation.  We don't "transform ourselves very quickly".

Brent

and we will also not known which machine she is, except that we will know some 
bound on its substitution level: by construction indeed. Once as much complex 
than us, even in that case, we will lost the information (except for the 
substitution level again).

All (sound) machine can develop the whole theology of a simpler machine, 
although not algorithmically in the first person modal logic. But the 
propositional theology is just G*, and provably so if we can prove that the 
machine is arithmetically sound (like we tend to believe for machine like PA 
and ZF).

Bruno



Brent

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