> On 15 Feb 2019, at 20:37, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be 
> <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:
> 
> > I will do a personal confession: I have never believe in matter, 
> 
> Matter doesn't care if you believe in it or not, it will just continue doing 
> what it does.

Assuming it exists. But in that case you have to explain what is primary 
matter, and how it makes some computations (going through your mind state) in 
arithmetic more real than others. That assumption makes things more complex, 
and without any evidence for it. So it looks like making things only more 
complex without any evidence for it. Assuming matter makes it primitive, 
without reason.




> 
> > because I have never seen any evidence for it. 
> 
> That's OK, I don't think matter has ever seen any evidence for you either.

Nor for your consciousness, but you cannot eliminate it, as you say in your 
critics on Dennett (with which I agree).



> 
> > Matter is like God, 
> 
> Matter is nothing like God, one is amenable to the scientific method and one 
> is not, that is to say one is bullshit and one is not.

I should have written “Assumed Matter” or “Primitive Matter”. It is like a 
creator God, instead of “God made it”, you accept/assume its existence, which 
is equivalent to abandoning the idea of explains it from simpler principles. It 
is the common “Aristotle's mistake” of reifying a metaphysical notion, to avoid 
explains it. To say “because matter is” is not a progress from “because A God 
made it”. 




> 
> > in the sense of the greeks
> 
> Yes in the sense of the ancient Greeks, in other words in the sense of people 
> with less scientific literacy than a bright fourth grader.

No, in theology Wie have regressed a lot, after the theology-science has been 
stolen by Churches and Tempes to control and manipulate people. Most people are 
even ignorant of the work of the neopythagorean and the neoplatonist. They 
ignore that the science of physics, mathematics, and even mathematical logic 
are all born from that scientific theology of the ancient greeks. It is just 
that after 529 in Occident, and after1248 (Al Ghazali) in the Middle-East, the 
field has been made taboo or mocked by people who use dogma instead.



> Why oh why do you keep talking about those ignoramuses? 

Because in theology, to put it roughly, we have imposed inconsistent theories 
since long.




> 
> > which means that it is something that we have to explain,
> 
> And then we have to explain the explanation and then explain the explanation 
> of the explanation and then…

… and then we explains everything, including the necessary presence of some 
unexplainable experiences and realms, just from elementary addition and 
multiplication, without assuming anything more than Mechanism and accepting the 
standard definitions in the fields of epistemology and ancient theology.
Mechanism explains the conscious appearance and the sharable and non sharable 
part of the physical reality, without committing itself in strong ontological 
assumption. 

Bruno





> 
>  John K Clark
> 
> 
> 
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