> On 13 Oct 2019, at 16:36, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 12:00:53 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:30:19 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 10/12/2019 7:21 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 8:07:46 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/12/2019 5:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> What does "realized" mean? made real? Being real is a metaphysical >>>> concept. Bohr never said anything about components of a superposition >>>> being real. He famously said “Physics is not about how the world is, it >>>> is about what we can say about the world” and “Everything we call real is >>>> made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> The latter comment is ridiculous. Aren't protons, neutrons and electrons >>>> real? >>> >>> Ask Bohr. You never answer my questions; why should I answer yours. >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> What questions haven't I answered??? AG >> >> Scan up until you see this symbol "?" >> >> Brent >> >> I explained what "realized" means by giving an example; S's cat, alive and >> dead simultaneously. > > That's a representation in the theory. Every measurement that "realizes" its > state finds it to be one or the other. So what's the operational > significance of "being realized"? Schroedinger's whole point was that an > alive and dead cat is never realized. > > Brent > > As I previously suggested, since there is no operator that has those cat > states as eigenstates, S's example was probably meant to falsify the then > prevailing (and continuing) interpretation of superposition, as it leads to > an absurdity. It's not just about the cat! But the case of spin could be an > exception to my general claim that it's a fallacy to interpret a > superposition to mean the system so described, is in all component states > simultaneously. AG > > S's cat scenario was not simply about the fate of a cat. After all, we > already knew a cat can't be alive and dead simultaneously. It must have been > to show the fallacy of the prevailing interpretation of superposition. AG > > Incidentally, as I pointed out in a previous discussion of this issue, > decoherence doesn't help. Even though it is extremely rapid, say 10^(-20) > sec, there is still a finite duration when, according to the standard > interpretation of superposition, the cat it is alive and dead simultaneously.
Once the cat is "alive and dead”, it is for life! (Grin). I mean that decoherence does not “collapse” the wave. It explains only why we can’t see it. By the linearity of evolution and of the tensor product, Once a superposition exist, it never disappear. > LC might see this as nit-picking, but it isn't. We know a cat cannot be alive > and dead simultaneously regardless of the time duration, however short. We don’t know that. A cat is dead + Alive in the same sense that a particle is going through two slits. With mechanism, there is no contradiction, as they are in different histories/computations. Bruno > So this result, when apply decoherence, doesn't avoid the superposition > fallacy illustrated by S's cat. It can be traced to the interpretation of the > superposition of (|decayed> + |undecayed>) of the radioactive source. AG > > >> Also, I said I would get back to you about spin superpositions when I have >> time to research the issue. Other than those items, I honestly have no idea >> what you're complaining about. Try asking me again. AG >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/57880cde-6295-4459-95c5-2d5ecef15133%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/57880cde-6295-4459-95c5-2d5ecef15133%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f6b15402-e17f-4e85-8966-15ed4d2e6f88%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f6b15402-e17f-4e85-8966-15ed4d2e6f88%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3849619C-DD9B-420C-B6B6-6676149622F9%40ulb.ac.be.
