> On 14 Nov 2019, at 10:50, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > What would be a sure phenomenon that can help us distinguish between dreams > and "real world" ? Because no matter how illogical a dream world might be, > this doesn't make us realize that we are in a dream.
Not always indeed. Likewise, we can become aware that we are dreaming in some totally non bizarre dream. It is not easy to find what makes us aware that we are dreaming in some dreams, but with training, we can learn to trig that phenomenon for some special bizarreries (like meeting someone who is dead, for example, but that is not automatic). A good selected paper on Lucid Dreams is the book edited by LaBerge and Co.(*). (*) Gackenbach Jayne & LaBerge Stephen (eds), Conscious Mind, Sleeping Brain, perspective on Lucid Dreaming, Plenum, Press, New-York 1988. > So the randomness of a dream world is not a phenomenon that can help us > distinguish between dreams and "real world”. It can, but not necessarily. > What I'm thinking that can help us make the discrimination is the phenomenon > of sense disappearance. If we keep a sense on only 1 stimulus, eventually we > will stop perceiving the stimulus. For example, if we hold our hand on the > leg of a girl, at first it is pleasant, but after a time we will stop feeling > anything. We will have to pet the leg of the girl in order to feel it again. > Would such a phenomenon happen in dreams ? If not, then this would be a > distinguishing hallmark between dreams and "real world". Do you have other > ideas ? With the assumption of Digital Mechanism, we can prove that 1) There is no way we can know if we are in a simulation/dream by direct introspection. 2) There is no way at all which can test if we are awake. 3) But if we have means to do physical experiences, we can test if we are in a simulation/dream, and this by comparing the physics below our substitution level and the physics inferred by observation. To be sure, in this case we can still believe that we are NOT in a dream/simulation by just abandoning Mechanism. To sum up: with Mechanism, we can never be sure that we are awake, but there are circumstances in which we can be sure that we are dreaming. I you can read French, there is a whole chapter on dream and Mechanism in the volume 3 (le cereveau, le rêve et la réalité) in my long text “Conscience et Mécanisme” here: http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/bxlthesis/consciencemecanisme.html Bruno > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/43a1559c-2555-469c-a685-94573950b65a%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/43a1559c-2555-469c-a685-94573950b65a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/492F8E82-8A9A-4862-AAC0-336E0231CE1B%40ulb.ac.be.
