> On 15 Nov 2019, at 01:06, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:56:33 PM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:49:36 PM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > The problem with physics is physicists ! Yeah, that's my conclusion after > many years of studying, arguing and reading. Many, perhaps most, attribute > ontological character to what is epistemological; namely the wf. This leads > to all kinds of conceptual errors, and ridiculous models and conjectures -- > such as MW, particles being in two positions at the same time, radiioactive > sources that are simultanously decayed and undecayed, and so forth. The wf > gives us information about the state of a system and nothing more. Sorry to > disappoint. AG > > > > > Physics is only models that come and go. One model (an expression in a > language) can be replaced by another if it's useful. Physicists who jump from > a model to an absolute statement about reality are out over their skis. > > How Models Are Used to Represent Reality > Ronald N. Giere > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/216300663_How_Models_Are_Used_to_Represent_Reality > > <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/216300663_How_Models_Are_Used_to_Represent_Reality> > > Most recent philosophical thought about the scientific representation of the > world has focused on dyadic relationships between language-like entities and > the world, particularly the semantic relationships of reference and truth. > Drawing inspiration from diverse sources, I argue that we should focus on the > pragmatic activity of representing, so that the basic representational > relationship has the form: Scientists use models to represent aspects of the > world for specific purposes. Leaving aside the terms "law" and "theory," I > distinguish principles, specific conditions, models, hypotheses, and > generalizations. I argue that scientists use designated similarities between > models and aspects of the world to form both hypotheses and generalizations. > > @philipthrift. > > I fundamentally disagree. The premise underlying models is that they > progressively approach a "true" discription of the external world. Do you > really think the Earth-centered model of the solar system is equally true as > our present understanding? AG > > I notice you habitually avoid discussing the problem of ontological versus > epistemological
That is the antic mind-body problem. It is nice that QM forces us to revisit it, and you are right, the reflex here is put put it under the rug, as we do in theology since 1500 years. > in the context of superposition and wf's. But this is where, IMO, the rubber > hits the road for the fantasies which are so prevalent today. AG The mind-body problem domain is a root for many fantaisies. I guess humans needs a “solution” to get some sense in their life. The difficulty for applying reason here is that when we do that, the first thing to acknowledge is that we don’t know, and our theory of mind (mainly computer science) is still very young. Even there, people hides the “problem of matter” for long. The problem is psychological, cultural, social. We are still in the era where people confuse God and spacial theories of God. We are in the era of liars, I’m afraid. Bruno > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3c27bbcd-baf0-48e7-99e4-73e0803789eb%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3c27bbcd-baf0-48e7-99e4-73e0803789eb%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/A33A6491-238C-45BA-959C-FA4A35E053A0%40ulb.ac.be.
