> On 15 Nov 2019, at 09:21, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 6:06:22 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:56:33 PM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:49:36 PM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > The problem with physics is physicists ! Yeah, that's my conclusion after > many years of studying, arguing and reading. Many, perhaps most, attribute > ontological character to what is epistemological; namely the wf. This leads > to all kinds of conceptual errors, and ridiculous models and conjectures -- > such as MW, particles being in two positions at the same time, radiioactive > sources that are simultanously decayed and undecayed, and so forth. The wf > gives us information about the state of a system and nothing more. Sorry to > disappoint. AG > > > > > Physics is only models that come and go. One model (an expression in a > language) can be replaced by another if it's useful. Physicists who jump from > a model to an absolute statement about reality are out over their skis. > > How Models Are Used to Represent Reality > Ronald N. Giere > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/216300663_How_Models_Are_Used_to_Represent_Reality > > <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/216300663_How_Models_Are_Used_to_Represent_Reality> > > Most recent philosophical thought about the scientific representation of the > world has focused on dyadic relationships between language-like entities and > the world, particularly the semantic relationships of reference and truth. > Drawing inspiration from diverse sources, I argue that we should focus on the > pragmatic activity of representing, so that the basic representational > relationship has the form: Scientists use models to represent aspects of the > world for specific purposes. Leaving aside the terms "law" and "theory," I > distinguish principles, specific conditions, models, hypotheses, and > generalizations. I argue that scientists use designated similarities between > models and aspects of the world to form both hypotheses and generalizations. > > @philipthrift. > > I fundamentally disagree. The premise underlying models is that they > progressively approach a "true" discription of the external world. Do you > really think the Earth-centered model of the solar system is equally true as > our present understanding? AG > > I notice you habitually avoid discussing the problem of ontological versus > epistemological in the context of superposition and wf's. But this is where, > IMO, the rubber hits the road for the fantasies which are so prevalent today. > AG > > > > > > There is no "epistemology" without human-level consciousness,
Or without (Löbian) machines’ consciousness. > and quantum stuff happens without humans. That is right, but it does not happen without machine’s consciousness. The wave is how machines predicts its more probable continuation coming from its necessary ignorance of which computations support them. > Where the epistemology stuff got into QM you have to ask that weird cult of > physicists who got into that. The problem is that if we assume a unique well defined physical universe, the epistemology of the observer acts on matter, and that is weird indeed, especially that it acts in a way violating physical realism and/or special relativity. No problem with the MW, which in the contrary confirms the simplest theory of mind (brain is a computer). Bruno > > > @philipthrift > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cf3af222-7bb0-428e-92e1-06638f264ebf%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/cf3af222-7bb0-428e-92e1-06638f264ebf%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/EDAB07A1-D59D-4F28-A49E-684B907394F1%40ulb.ac.be.
