> On 14 Nov 2019, at 19:49, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > From the perspective of experiential realism (ER) > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/5Vzj0mFW4KM/_qZECzTTAwAJ > > the experience that occurs in a dream could be the same as an experience that > occurs when awake.
Yes indeed. That is confirmed experimentally. The lucid dreaming state allows the dreamer to communicate with “outside” in a laboratory, by moving his eyes, or the time of the fingers. The dream-REM-paralysis does not act on the ocular muscle. That has been used to test different type of activity, like counting, singing, imagining colours, etc. and the activity in the brain is exactly the same as in the waken state. When we order a muscle, that order is given during the dream, and is just not executed thanks to this paralysis. That is how Jouvet discovered the REM state of sleep (in which the long vivid nocturnal dream occurs) with cats who were treated to bypass the paralysis. Even hungry they hunt for imaginary mouse and fail to see a plate full of cat food. > > Say the experience is DaCoT = drinking a cup of tea (the feel of the cup, the > warmth and taste of the tea). > > A tea drinker knows a DaCoT experience when awake. They could have a DaCoT > experience in a dream. > > (This presumes experiences are real in the sense of ER.) In some dream we can know that we dream (lucid dream), but in all awaken state we cannot know for sure that we are awake. Of course we can know it in the sense of Theaetetus (that is: we can believe that we are awake, and be awake). Bruno > > @philipthrift > > On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 3:50:45 AM UTC-6, Cosmin Visan wrote: > What would be a sure phenomenon that can help us distinguish between dreams > and "real world" ? Because no matter how illogical a dream world might be, > this doesn't make us realize that we are in a dream. So the randomness of a > dream world is not a phenomenon that can help us distinguish between dreams > and "real world". What I'm thinking that can help us make the discrimination > is the phenomenon of sense disappearance. If we keep a sense on only 1 > stimulus, eventually we will stop perceiving the stimulus. For example, if we > hold our hand on the leg of a girl, at first it is pleasant, but after a time > we will stop feeling anything. We will have to pet the leg of the girl in > order to feel it again. Would such a phenomenon happen in dreams ? If not, > then this would be a distinguishing hallmark between dreams and "real world". > Do you have other ideas ? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a3e917d1-fc83-4935-b723-2212de08fa4a%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a3e917d1-fc83-4935-b723-2212de08fa4a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7E97C0CB-2FAD-43BD-9F5D-20987B4F11CC%40ulb.ac.be.
