On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 6:51 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
>> You're talking about two different things that deal with different >> subjects. I'm talking about counterfactual definiteness and the subject of >> that is nature, it either has counterfactual definiteness or it doesn't and >> only experiment can determine which: >> "*In quantum mechanics, counterfactual definiteness (CFD) is the ability >> to speak "meaningfully" of the definiteness of the results of measurements >> that have not been performed (i.e., the ability to assume the existence of >> objects, and properties of objects, even when they have not been measured). >> The term "counterfactual definiteness" is used in discussions of physics >> calculations, especially those related to the phenomenon called quantum >> entanglement and those related to the Bell inequalities*." >> > > *> The trouble is that this emphasis on counterfactual definiteness is > peculiar to a particular approach to Bell's theorem. Bell did not assume > counterfactual definiteness,* > Of course Bell didn't assume counterfactual definiteness aka Reality!! Bell proposed a experiment that would help us figure out if counterfactual definiteness was true or not. Bell proved that if Superdeterminism is untrue and his exparament shows that a inequality he found is violated then Reality and Locality (hidden variables) can not both be true, although both could be false. About 15 years after he had this idea techniques had improved enough to actually perform the experiment, and it turned out that Bell's Inequality is indeed violated. > * > In fact, quantum theory explicitly rejects counterfactual definiteness > as defined above.* > It does now thanks to Bell and the scientists who performed the very difficult experiment. But before that many physicists, including Einstein and Schrödinger and De Broglie, thought the strange behavior of electrons in the 2 slit exparament could be totally explained by local hidden variables. It turned out they were wrong. *>> " Scientific realism is a positive epistemic attitude toward the >> content of our best theories and models, recommending belief in both >> observable and unobservable aspects of the world described by the sciences.* >> " >> > > *> Sure, but whether or not the many-worlds theory explicitly embraces the > realism of the wave function* > The wave function is not a physical object, and no theory about anything says nothing is real because if it did there would be nothing in the theory to study. And you could forget about the wave function entirely if you wanted and reformulate the Many Worlds theory in the language of Heisenberg's Matrix Mechanics instead because the two methods are mathematically equivalent. Reality, as the word is used by quantum physicists, means that after an interaction a physical object is always in one and only one state, so by that precise meaning of the word Many Worlds is not a realistic theory. *> You ignore the content of the best thought on the subject, and > consistently misrepresent the meanings of common terms as referring to your > own self-serving definitions. By not actually listening to, and responding > to, what the other person is saying, you are engaging in trolling behaviour > -- no matter what you actually believe. Your responses appear to be > designed merely to annoy and provoke strong rejoinders. That is not the way > of academic discussion.* > Academic discussion? Mr. Kellett, please stop pretending you have demonstrated a deep and profound understanding of this subject that others lack, you have done the exact opposite. After saying something as obviously true and obviously silly as "*Bell did not assume counterfactual definiteness*" your pretence of intellectual superiority makes you look even more pompous and ridiculous. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0TNpx%2BcC7cpRpaPakj%2Bo5j074SDKMh1W8dp5WQ1FqDPw%40mail.gmail.com.
