> On 3 Dec 2019, at 03:18, Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 12:39 PM smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl 
> <mailto:smi...@zonnet.nl>> wrote:
> On 02-12-2019 09:39, Bruce Kellett wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 7:19 PM Philip Thrift <cloudver...@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:cloudver...@gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > "even in many-worlds you end up on only one branch (stochastically)"
> > 
> > Sean Carroll himself has said (in a tweet) that if you let
> > probabilities (stochasticity) in - like the camel's nose under the
> > tent - you might as well have a one world - not many worlds - theory.
> > 
> > We do have only one world. Do you know of anyone who lives in more
> > than one branch of the multiverse?
> > 
> > Bruce
> Your subjective state (everything that you're aware at some instant), 
> doesn't fully specify the exact physical state of your brain. The number 
> of distinct physical brain states is so astronomically large that your 
> mindset and how you are feeling about everything isn't going to be 
> consistent with only one physical brain state. This means that given 
> your subjective state, the physical state of your MWI sector should be 
> described as a very complex superposition involving a large number of 
> brain states that are entangled with the environment.
> My brain currently has only one state.

How do you know that? How could you know that.

> Other states may be consistent with my current conscious state, but these do 
> not exist. The idea that I am a superposition of all brain states consistent 
> with my consciousness is just idle speculation. How would you ever prove such 
> a thing?

We cannot prove the existence of a physical universe, and if we assume 
mechanism, we cannot see how a universe could choose one state against the 
infinitely many others which lead to the same consciousness. 

Of course, this should not be a problem for a non-mechanist, except that he has 
to provide its non-mechanist theory of mind, and still explain the role of the 
(not finitely descriptible) substrate in generating its consciousness. 

> If we assume that we can bypass this problem and that we can locate 
> ourselves in one single branch, then this leads to the following 
> paradox. Consider simulating such a conscious entity on a computer. At 
> all moments in time, the physical state of the computer is just 
> transitioning from one particular state to another state. Since 
> consciousness is related to the actual physical state of the computer, 
> replacing the computer by a dumb device that doesn't compute anything, 
> which simply cycles through physical states that the computer would move 
> through given some particular set of inputs, will render exactly the 
> same consciousness.
> Yes, and so what? If my consciousness is a sequence of brain states, anything 
> that produces that same sequence of brain states will produce my 
> consciousness. Substrate independence, after all.
> This absurd conclusion depends only on the single world assumption,
> It is not absurd in the least. Argument ad absurdum is not a logical 
> argument. What is absurd to you may be perfectly reasonable to someone else.
> it's a consequence of the non-existence of counterfactuals.

Which will need to assume actual infinities, and very big one.

> How can a counterfactual exist? By definition, it is counter to the facts, 
> hence, non-existent.
> Clearly actions 
> as a response to counterfactual inputs must be relevant for 
> consciousness,
> But there cannot be any such thing as a counterfactual input. You might 
> consider "What if...." scenarios. But they are not relevant for my current 
> brain state. It will do what it will do, whatever the input.
> but there is no room to do that within classical single 
> World physics. But as I pointed out above the generic state of a 
> conscious involves being located not in a single branch, but being 
> distributed over an astronomically large number of different branches.
> Different branches are, by definition, non-interacting, so different branches 
> correspond to different persons. Anyway, I choose not to accept this load of 
> speculative rubbish.

Because you speculate on a physical universe which would be ontologically 
primary. With mechanism, we need not to assume more than 2+2=4, or Kxy = x, …

There is no problem with the MWI once we stop assuming physicalism, which seems 
to me to be the bg speculation here.


> Bruce
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