On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:04:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Feb 2020, at 12:14, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 3:13:35 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 12:34:20 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 12:54:21 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *What is being computed? What, or who wrote the program? Or is there no >>>> program? If no program, your claim makes no sense in being an analogy with >>>> computers we have. AG * >>>> >>> >>> Matter is >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_matter >>> >>> but naturally, not synthetically. >>> >>> >>> @philipthrift >>> >> >> Matter computes when it has specific structures and inputs. It doesn't >> create or sustain reality in an ontological sense, which is what the >> argument is about. That is, matter and computations in the link you offer, >> is preexisting and assumed. AG >> > > > That's exactly right. > > And also all human-made computers we've ever made - from abacus to laptop > - perform computations by moving stuff - beads or electrons - from one > place to another. > > > This describes the computation implemented in a physical reality. But > since Gödel 1931, we know (or should know) that they are implemented also > in arithmetic. If you believe that only the physical computations can be > conscious, you might try to find what in matter is not Turing emulable, and > would play a role in consciousness. Now, if you find that, you will have to > reject Digital Mechanism, which is my point. > > Bruno > > > > There is no external, abstract computation outside matter that has ever > existed. > > > @philipthrift > > > That numerical machines can emulate the apparent behavior of everything is the conventional view of science (what Philip Goff's book is about), and what Tegmark and every other physicist I've come across says. (It from [qu]bit.)
But the experiential (Galen Strawson) machine (intrinsically conscious) relies on nonnumerical entities. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5b53a11e-d780-49b9-9d6d-a8efd378bfa8%40googlegroups.com.
