On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 7:05:07 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 5:33:53 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:02 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 4:24:36 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:11 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 2:56:50 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:00 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If it's not conserved, as seems implied by the red shift due to >>>>>>> expansion, where does it go? TIA, AG >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Silly question. If it is not conserved, it does't have to go anywhere >>>>>> -- it just vanishes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bruce >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> When an expanding gas cools, doesn't the energy go into work done to >>>>> cause the expansion? Is it your opinion then, that something cannot come >>>>> from nothing, but something can become nothing? AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That's what non-conservation means -- something can come from nothing >>>> and go to nothing. >>>> >>>> Bruce >>>> >>> >>> If you believe in what's called "evidence", and extrapolating from it to >>> create a hypothetical physical theory, can you give a single example of >>> something coming from nothing? AG >>> >> >> Two examples. The universe; Dark energy. >> >> Bruce >> > > We have no clue how the universe began, or even IF it began; and we have > zero understanding of dark energy, other than it probably exists and > gravitationally interacts with ordinary matter. Where's the rigor? AG >
In my reply above, I was really referring to dark matter. However, the same argument (wrt origin) can be said of dark energy (except that it seems to have the opposite sign (repulsive) of the gravity we're familiar with). More important though for this discussion, is that its *origin* is completely unknown, as is the case for ordinary matter and dark matter. We just can't assert they arose from nothing. So what would non-conservation of energy mean? Maybe, the apparent loss of energy as the universe expands, causes it to expand. IOW, not a real loss but a lower energy density spread over larger volumes of space, keeping the total energy unchanged. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/788b6d75-2ab7-4484-b9fa-fccd8786bda2%40googlegroups.com.
