On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 6:51:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 8 May 2020, at 18:58, John Clark <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > If you want to do something drastic to end this virus nightmare there is > something we could do that would be far more effective than waiting for > herd immunity as well as being less ethically questionable, although I'm > sure some would still clutch their pearls in horror, I'm referring to Human > Challenge Trials. The idea is young healthy volunteers would be injected > with a experimental vaccine (or a placebo) and then deliberately infected > with the COVID-19 virus. This would dramatically speed up vaccine > development and save many thousands, perhaps millions, of lives; not to > mention stop the economy from collapsing into rubble. The death rate for > young healthy people who get COVID-19 is only about 1.4 deaths per 10,000 > and the death rate for those who volunteer as kidney donors is 3 times > that, we accept one as being ethical why not the other? > > > I agree. In fact I think that a government has nothing to say about which > medication or medical technic can be used. It is only you and your doctor > or shaman who can decide, and evaluate their risk. The government can > impose “warnings”, and impose the traceability of products, and many > things, but not a treatment, nor any particular medication, at least in > normal time. If people are OK to try a new medication, there is no problem, > as long as they get the information right, including the possible lack of > information. A government can impose medical prescription, though, but > again, that must be debatable, and only the physicians should be able to > provide informations if such a decision makes sense. > > Can a government imposes a vaccine? Yes, but again, only if there is some > regulating independent court to assess the need. If not, that becomes an > easy way to make money on diseases, like “big-pharma” already does a lot > (and that is a *big* current problem). > > During a pandemic, a government can impose both vaccine and quarantine, > but again, only if such decisions are well explained and limited in time. > > About all this, the following video makes me worry a lot: > > "US makes 'big bet' on vaccine company that's never brought a vaccine to > market": > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TddfLvAeTqQ > > It is so weird … that I am waiting for more information confirming this, > but that is an example of what should never been done. It is like putting > all eggs in the same basket which does not yet exist. > > Bruno > > Donald t'Rump has no idea what he is doing. He even expresses confusion over what exactly a test does, where he has made statements suggesting he thinks it is preventative method. t'Rump operates by pure cronism, and his plugging of hydrochloriquine is because he bought a lot of stock in an company in India that makes this anti-malarial drug. It has to be mentioned that this sort of activity, buying stock and doing business, violates the emoluments clause of the Constitution. On top of it t'Rump has a hard time making words such as "and" and "the" truthful. Don-the-Con t'Rump has quite a cultish set of followers and it may require a serious damaging event to unseat him in the coming election.
The idea of paying people for human trials to expedite the development of a vaccine is probably at least worth considering. Given all of these unemployed people out there a decent statistical sample space is possible, Also the emergency employment pool exists to do testing and contact tracing. There seems to be only tepid action along these lines. Reopening the economy would be better if it could be more micromanaged this way before a vaccine comes In China, S, Korea and Germany the pandemic is already rebounding as they have opened up. In the US the same will occur in spades, and we have a clown for a President who has no clue about anything scientific. LC > > > As one ethicist put it: > > > *"This is the trolley problem where the fat man wants to jump knowing his > chance of death is below 1% and our decision is whether to stop him."* > Should volunteers to be infected with coronavirus to test vaccines? > <https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/united-states-should-allow-volunteers-be-infected-coronavirus-test-vaccines-lawmakers#> > > Human Challenge Trials—A Coronavirus Taboo > <https://quillette.com/2020/05/01/human-challenge-trials-a-coronavirus-taboo/> > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3ciaxqpYwcvp6u6ST02RfgwDDkAm9zYHg-VpQKCW5FDw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3ciaxqpYwcvp6u6ST02RfgwDDkAm9zYHg-VpQKCW5FDw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e2349d6d-5aab-42c1-be65-e607f7c18392%40googlegroups.com.
