> On 6 Jun 2020, at 19:08, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > On 6/6/2020 4:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 5 Jun 2020, at 21:42, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <everything-list@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Bruno quotes: >>> >>> "Of this reality, as I explained […], I take a 'realistic" view. At any >>> rate (and this is my main point) this realistic view is much more plausible >>> of mathematical than of physical reality, because mathematical objects are >>> so much more what they seem. A chair or a star is not in the least like >>> what it seems to be ; the more we think of it, the fuzzier its outlines >>> become in the haze of sensations which surrounds it; but '2' and '317' has >>> nothing to do with sensations, and its properties stand out the more >>> clearly the more closely we scrutinize it. It may be that modern physics >>> fits best in the framework of idealistic philosophy---I do not believe it, >>> but there are eminent physicist who say so. Pure Mathematics, on the other >>> hand, seems to me a rock on which all idealism founders: 317 is prime, not >>> because we think so, or because our minds are shaped in one way rather than >>> another, but because it is so, because mathematical is built that way." >>> `--- G. H. Hardy, "A Mathematician's Apology", Cambridge University Press, >>> 1940 (1998) >>> >>> Exactly why we should recognize that mathematics is made-up. We understand >>> it clearly because there is nothing to it except what we put in. >> >> Why would we give 1,000,000 $ to someone solving a conjecture on the prime >> numbers, is we get only what we put in? > > Sometimes it is very hard to find what we get out of what we put in.
We put in our beliefs. We get out the consequences. > >> >> And why arithmetic. Why not say this for physics? > > I do say it. Physical theories are stories we make up. OK. Nice. The point is that with mechanism, there is only one physical theory of everything physical, and it is “make up” by all universal numbers/machines. So we can test mechanism by comparing that physics with what we observe. > >> >> I don’t see an argument. You are just saying that the physical reality is >> primitive. That’s begging the question entirely. > > I've never said that. OK. Nice. But then I am no more sure what is the object of what looks like a critics or skepticism toward what I have proven. > >> >> Physics is a wonderful science, but metaphysical physicalism is refuted … >> since Plato. And it is refuted constructively by Turing type of Digital >> Mechanism, so we can do the test, and the test confirms Mechanism, and >> confirms Plato’s refutation of physicalism (with a different vocabulary, >> though). >> >> When metaphysics is done with the scientific attitude, it is better to avoid >> starting from any ontological commitment, just using the axioms needed to >> define the concept in which we are ready to believe at the start, like the >> notion of digital machine, when we assume digital mechanism. > > That's a very theological approach. Decide what we believe at the start. That is the scientific approach. Decide to make clear what we assume and all agree on, if only for the sake of finding a contradiction, internal or with nature, at the start. That is indeed what the theologian did, before theology was stolen by tyrannic politics. Well, serious theologian continue to do this, but silently, and secretly, to stay alive... Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a3b6551c-e0ff-41d3-8603-78f9182905dc%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a3b6551c-e0ff-41d3-8603-78f9182905dc%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/92BEB366-75E7-424F-BE22-5CDAC8FF6250%40ulb.ac.be.
