On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 10:54:08 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
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> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 5:53:27 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
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>> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 7:31:18 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 1:53 AM smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11-06-2020 02:01, Bruce Kellett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Energy and momentum are conserved locally, even in GR where global
>>>> > energy conservation fails in a non-static universe.
>>>>
>>>> Not in the sense you are suggesting. Energy and momentum are constant 
>>>> in 
>>>> a closed volume and one can then write down the conservation law in a 
>>>> local form. But this so-called "local conservation of energy and 
>>>> momentum" does not mean that it's conserved in the sense of having a 
>>>> constant value everywhere.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bullshit. Energy-momentum conservation comes from translational 
>>> invariance of the Lagrangian in space and time. Local conservation is 
>>> ensured in GR by the vanishing of the covariant derivative of the 
>>> Stress-Energy tensor. Local in this sense means on the scale of the galaxy 
>>> or more. In the absence of a time-like Killing vector in an expanding 
>>> universe, this conservation breaks down on larger scales, such as the scale 
>>> of the Hubble expansion.
>>>
>>> If you have a theory that violates local energy-momentum conservation in 
>>> the above sense, then your theory is wrong. Local conservation does not 
>>> mean that energy necessarily has the same constant value everywhere.
>>>
>>> .........
>>>
>>>> >> The expectation value of these energies do fluctuate.
>>>> > 
>>>> > You can introduce coupled harmonic oscillators, but that is not how
>>>> > you form a quantized field theory. Such fluctuations arise from
>>>> > non-local couplings -- they are not fluctuations of the original
>>>> > quantum field. Energy-momentum is locally conserved, even in GR and an
>>>> > expanding universe.
>>>> > 
>>>>
>>>> The Casimir effect, the effective negative pressure of the vacuum is 
>>>> another way to see that your arguments based on local energy 
>>>> conservation are wrong. Vacuum fluctuations in the local energy density 
>>>> do exist and they have measurable effects.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wondered when this would come up. It is always the last resort of 
>>> those who contend that vacuum fluctuations in local energy densities are 
>>> real. I remember reading a comprehensive review of the Casimir effect in a 
>>> scholarly article in Rev. Mod. Phys. a few years ago. Unfortunately, I did 
>>> not keep a reference, and I have been unable to find this paper again. But 
>>> I do remember the main points of the analysis: They discuss the 
>>> Mickey-Mouse Comic-Book explanation of the Casimir effect in terms of 
>>> supposed vacuum fluctuations, but they dismiss this approach as 
>>> insufficiently general. They give a detailed account of the Casimir effect 
>>> in terms of generalized van der Waals forces. The reason for preferring 
>>> this explanation (over vacuum fluctuations, sidestepping the question of 
>>> whether these fluctuations exist or not)  is that the van der Waals 
>>> explanation extends seamlessly to the Casimir effect between irregular 
>>> surfaces -- indeed, to the attractive force between a point and a plane 
>>> surface -- where the fluctuation model is silent.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>
>> *I'd like to do a search for this paper. Perhaps you can give me some 
>> information, even approximate, in order to find it, such as approximate 
>> name, author or authors, approximate date of publication, and anything else 
>> you can recall. TIA, AG *
>>
>
> *To put it as politely as possible, and undeservedly so, why must ethical 
> challenges, yours, be part of this picture? AG *
>

*OK; I finally get it. I really get it. At the core, at YOUR core, is a 
rude, anally retentive scum-bucket. I am NOT asking much; just any 
additional information you might recall, that could aid in my search of the 
important article you referenced. But that's just TOO much for you, and I 
now know why. So please; do me a favor; go fuck yourself if you can figure 
out how.  AG *

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