Those are examples that assume the existing system is working fine and
we're just upgrading. But in the case of fossil fuel it's waste IS the
problem. So shutting it down is what you do when you're deep in the CO2
hole...stop digging.
Brent
On 6/10/2021 3:46 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Sure John, I follow all this stuff on a daily basis. From Rolf
Landauer early CO2 absorber stuff of the 90's to more sophisticated
units, often far small, to storing CO2 with limestone. I am just duly
noting that Gohmert is not fool out there. Look, everyone here is
familiar with bringing in a new computer system. Unless things are
unusually smooth, it usually takes a concurrent practice to fully
install the new system, run both simultaneously, then cut over once
the software and financials are seen to be working. This is not what
has been done under the ruling party since January. The thing to kill
fossil fuels, or create pollution catchers, is to build these, install
the same, test, and then monitor. If everything is running excellent,
cut over! If not, inspect what is the hold up? Do not proclaim a great
success (for no material reason) and then shut down oil and gas
exploration. Do not transplant a new heart into a patient until one
has a replacement heart. I am a pragmatist and will view with favor
anything that works.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <[email protected]>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Jun 10, 2021 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: Dumbest guy in congress asks if the Forest Service can
change Earth's orbit to fight climate change
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 3:04 PM spudboy100 via Everything List
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
/> I would be asking NASA myself, especially in light of multiple
recommendations from climate scientists to perform mass aerosol
sprays into the upper atmosphere to cool us all off, /
Nathan Myhrvold, the former chief technical officer at Microsoft,
wants to build an artificial volcano. Mt Pinatubo in 1991 became the
best studied large volcanic eruption in history, it put more sulfur
dioxide into the stratosphere than any volcano since Krakatoa in 1883.
There is no longer any dispute that stratospheric sulfur dioxide leads
to more diffuse sunlight, a decrease in the ozone layer, and a general
cooling of the planet. What was astonishing was how little
stratospheric sulfur dioxide was needed. If you injected it in the
arctic where it would be about 4 times more effective, about 100,000
tons a year would reverse global warming in the northern hemisphere.
That works out to 34 gallons per minute, a bit more than what a
standard garden hose could deliver but much less than a fire hose. We
already spew out over 200,000,000 tons of sulphur dioxide into the
atmosphere each year, but all of that is in the lower troposphere
where it has little or no cooling effect, the additional 100,000 tons
is a drop in the bucket if you're looking at the tonnage, but it's in
the stratosphere where its vastly more effective.
Myhrvold wasn't suggesting anything as ambitious as a space elevator,
just a light hose 2 inches in diameter going up about 18 miles. In one
design he burns sulfur to make sulfur dioxide, he then liquefies it
and injects it into the stratosphere with a hose supported every 500
to 1000 feet with helium balloons. Myhrvold thinks this design would
cost about 150 million dollars to build and about 100 million a year
to operate. In another design that would probably be even cheaper he
just slips a sleeve over the smokestack of any existing small to
midsize coal power plant in the higher latitudes and uses the hot
exhaust to fill hot air balloons to support the hose.
If Myhrvold's cost estimate is correct that means it would take 50
million dollars less to cure global warming than it cost Al Gore to
just advertise the evils of climate change. But even if Myhrvold's
estimate is ten times or a hundred times too low it hardly matters,
it's still chump change. In a report to the British government
economist Nicholas Stern said that to reduce carbon emissions enough
to stabilize global warming by the end of this century we would need
to spend 1.5% of global GDP each year, that works out to 1.2 trillion
(trillion with a t) dollars EACH YEAR.
One great thing about Myhrvold's idea is that you're not doing
anything irreparable, if for whatever reason you want to stop you just
turn a valve on a hose and in about a year all the sulfur dioxide you
injected will settle out of the atmosphere. And Myhrvold isn't the
only fan of this idea, Paul Crutzen won a Nobel prize for his work on
ozone depletion, in 2006 he said efforts to solve the problem by
reducing greenhouse gases were doomed to be /“grossly unsuccessful/”
and that an injection of sulfur in the stratosphere “/is the only
option available to rapidly reduce temperature rises and counteract
other climatic effects/”. Crutzen acknowledged that it would reduce
the ozone layer but the change would be small and the benefit would
be much greater than the harm. And diffuse sunlight, another of the
allegedly dreadful things associated with sulfur dioxide high up in
the atmosphere, well..., plant photosynthesis is more efficient under
diffuse light. Plants grow better in air with lots of CO2 in it also,
but that's another story.
But maybe things are improving. In a report issued on March 28 the
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine said the US
should spend at least $100 million on Geoengineering research,
specifically on injecting aerosols into the upper atmosphere to
reflect more sunlight and cool the planet. Although constantly
screaming about how global warming will lead to a world ending
holocaust environmentalist refuse to even consider such a solution;
even though in the entire history of life there has never been 8
billion animals as large as human beings alive at the same time, they
seem to think all 8 billion people can be made to be happy and healthy
without changing the overall biosphere one teeny tiny bit, and all can
be accomplished with just moon beams or somesuch. But then
environmentalists are not serious people. Bernie Sanders for example
doesn't even want to talk about such a thing and says Geoengineering
should be grouped with other ridiculous ideas that "obviously" won't
work, such as nuclear power, he says global warming is leading the
entire human race straight to extinction but we shouldn't even think
about Geoengineering as a solution because it might be dangerous.
That's about what I would expect him to say because Bernie Sanders is
an environmentalist, and environmentalists are notserious people.
Reflecting sunlight:Recommendations for Solar Geoengineering Research
<https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25762/reflecting-sunlight-recommendations-for-solar-geoengineering-research-and-research-governance>
/> or to drop gigatons of iron filings to offset the weakening of
the Atlantic current./
The idea is that even a small amount of iron added to the southern
ocean would fertilize the production of photosynthetic organisms which
suck CO2 from the atmosphere and expel oxygen. And sure enough when
Mount Pinatubo erupted it injected about 40,000 tons of iron into the
ocean and a noticeable increase in atmospheric oxygen and a decrease
in CO2 was observed. The trouble is every time scientists try to test
this further environmentalists throw a hissy fit. Keeping 8 billion
large land animals of the same species well fed, happy, and healthy
has never been done before in the entire 3.5 Billion year history of
life on this planet, so it would be unrealistic to expect to be able
to do it now and do it without causing any changes to the biosphere
that might have a negative effect on other species. It's unfortunate
but that's just the way it is, you can't make an omelette without
breaking some eggs.
/> Joe thinks its ok to save the earth first without having wind,
solar, and batteries massively available to switch over,/
You're never going to replace fossil fuels entirely with just solar
and wind power, the energy density is just too low.You're going to
need nuclear power too, it is after all the safest form of energy
production and it produces no greenhouse gases at all. And liquid
thorium reactors would be even better than the ones we have today if
somebody would put up the paltry amount of money needed to develop
them a little further and if environmentalists would just get out of
the way.
> The Population Bomb is still ticking, or so Ehrlich asserted and
lied about 53 years ago.
Ehrlich's population bomb turned out to be a wet firecracker, the
global birth rate has been declining for years. That's what always
happens when people become more prosperous and the child mortality
rate drops, and human beings have never been healthier or richer than
they are right now.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
ebn
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