On 2/28/2022 1:01 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:31 PM Brent Meeker <meekerbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

        >> Determinism just means a future state of the universe can be
        calculated from the information in a previous date, but it
        says nothing about the initial conditionof the universe.
        Superdeterminism says in addition that out of all the huge,
        and possibly infinite, number of states the universe could've
        started out in it started out in the one in only state that
        would not only produce humans after 13.8 billion years but
        humans who would always just happen to perform the wrong
        experiments so that they would always be fooled into thinking
        that the universe was random and non-local when in reality it
        was neither. And it's literally impossible for there to be a
        theory with a greater violation of Occam's razor than that.

    /> That's like saying it's violation of Occam's razor that some
    buy won a million dollars in the lottery because it was so
    improbable that he won.  If the universe started out in some
    definite state and it evolved deterministically then that it
    produced humans who did certain things is no more remarkable than
    if had produced Martians who did something different. /


No, it's saying that whenever humans did an experiment in physics and changed something in a way they thought was random and concluded from the experiment that the universe was random and non-local they were actually being fooled because what they thought was random was not random at all,  instead it was a part of a grand conspiracy that started 13.8 billion years ago from a very very specific initial state that resulted in humans always being fooled no matter how many times they repeated such experiments.

So you think their decisions were not deterministic; then they were either random or libertarian "free will".  If they were deterministic they were determined by any Cauchy slice of their past light cone, including the one 13.8 billion years ago.  There's no "consipiracy to it; that implies some intelligence agent arranging it.  It's just what happened.  You don't believe in free will, but you believe in statistically independent will.

Brent

The only reason somebody would concoct such a ridiculous theory is that for whatever reason they just didn't like the Many Worlds idea and were desperate to do something, anything, to avoid it. If they really believed in superdeterminism then there would be no point in conducting scientific experiments at all because the universe is perverse and will always lie to them so the entire scientific method is invalid.  You couldn't even trust your own memories or thoughts because the universe has been engineered from the start to make fools of us, so even thinking is a waste of time. I thought the holy rollers who say the universe is only 4000 years old and God buried dinosaur bones to fool humans and test their faith were bad, but this is worse, much much worse.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
lqg

sua
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