On 4/23/2022 8:41 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 11:27 AM Alan Grayson <agrayson2...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:03:49 AM UTC-6 smi...@zonnet.nl
wrote:
On 23-04-2022 04:38, Jason Resch wrote:
> Artificial Life such as these organisms:
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq_mdJjNRPT11IF4NFyLcIWJ1C0Z3hTAX
>
> ( https://github.com/jasonkresch/bots )
>
> Have neural networks that evolved through natural selection,
can adapt
> to a changing environment, and can learn to distinguish
between "food"
> and "poison" in their environment.
>
> If simple creatures like worms or insects are conscious,
(because they
> have brains, and evolved), then wouldn't these artificial
life forms
> be conscious for the same reasons?
>
> Why or why not?
>
Yes. If states of consciousness are identified with
algorithms, then the
world as viewed from the point of view of a particular worm is
defined
by that particular algorithm that the worm's brain is
implementing. If
you run that same algorithm also in a simulation, then that same
consciousness exists both in the simulation as a simulated
worm and in
the real world as a real worm. The consciousness cannot locate
itself in
one or the other situation, as it is identical in both
situations.
Saibal
This, of course, is nonsense. The question you should ask yourself
is, How can anything know anything? AG
I disagree with your assessment that what Saibal said was nonsense,
however I agree with you that the real question of consciousness is:
"What is a knower?"
What properties must a system posses to know something? I don't have
an answer but I have some ideas. I'm interested to hear your or
other's take on these:
*Consciousness is:*
* Awareness of Information
* A knowledge State
* An Infinite Class (infinite possible variations and permutations,
configurations)
I don't see how you can define it as an infinite anything, since all
examples are finite.
* A requirement for: Experience, Thought, Feeling, Knowing, Seeing,
Noticing (can any of these things exist absent consciousness? E.g.
some part of system that acts like it knows must really know.)
In most contexts "experience" implies memory, reflection, and learning.
A the level of awareness and reaction a bacterium or a jellyfish might
be conscious but not have experience.An activity (not a passive state of
0s and 1s, operations/behavior/actions give meaning and context to
information and how it is processed and what it means)
* Is it a recursive relationship? A model of environment including self?
I think that's step above bacteria; maybe planaria. But the recursion
is very limited. And even humans can't do very deep recursion, they
just pass it off to language. My LISP can do a lot deeper recursions
than I can.Is it undefinable?
* Word origin: "con" (together/with/unified/united) "scious"
(knowledge): unified knowledge
* It exists in the abstract informational state, not in the material
* A meaningful interpretation of information
I think you missed an essential aspect of higher level consciousness.
The subconscious is predictive and what is noticed consciously are
little (or sometimes big) corrections to what was predicted.
Brent
*Information is:*
* A difference that makes a difference
* A comparison, differentiation, distinction
* Specification / Indication
* Negative entropy
* A decrease in uncertainty
* A probability of being in different states
* Bits, digits, a number (representations of information)
* A subspace of a larger space
* A state of a finite state machine
* Requires an interpreter (A system to be informed) to be meaningful
*A subject is:*
* A system to be informed
* A processor of information
* A knower (a believer)
* An inside viewer
* A first-person
* A possessor of knowledge
* An interpreter of information
* A modeler of environment or self (or both)
*Knowledge is:*
* An apprehended truth
* A true belief (bet)
* Not always shareable (when self-referential)
* A relationship between two objects or object and itself
Jason
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