I think physics fundamentally constrains causal rules to obey the Church-Turing thesis. That is, computable dynamics are computable on a Turing machine. However, there is some form of axiomatic incompleteness such as Gödel's theorem or Turing's result on universal Turing machines. We have then has a universal form of event horizon, of which the quantum uncertainty principle and spacetime event horizons are examples of. In a full quantum gravitational setting we may then have the CT thesis upheld so there are no physical hypercomputations (I wonder what happened to Phill Thrift?) that skirt the Gödel theorem or Turing's result.
As a result physics is "Turing computable" with a minimal number of oracle inputs. These oracle inputs could be things such as what we call the collapse of a wave function or the incomplete description of gravitational collapse behind the horizon. Nature just gives these oracle in puts randomly. There is no dynamics behind them that we can ever compute. In other words, chasing after a solution to the so called measurement problem in QM is a fool's errand. This universal event horizon goes into our inability to measure anything concerning the nature of things beyond inflation or the quantum gravitational amplitude, or vacuum expected value etc, leading to inflation. Ideas of cyclic cosmologies or the universe comes from a black hole or the multiverse or ... , may simply be unattainable. These may be similar to the interpretations of QM, which are axiomatic input, oracle outputs if you will, that we impose. These things may be fundamentally unobservable and formally undecidable. LC On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 6:04:16 PM UTC-5 meeke...@gmail.com wrote: > Exactly. That's why I wrote "...our part of universe". Whether the > part of the system that we can never interact with is relevant is a > question for metaphysics. > > Brent > > On 8/28/2022 11:58 AM, smitra wrote: > > But then you are describing only part of the system using QM. The > > whole system includes the universe itself, this is described by a > > wavefunctional that assigns amplitudes to entire space-time > > configurations and the fields in it. > > > > Saibal > > > > > > On 28-08-2022 20:42, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> But in the mean time the expansion of the universe has moved lots of > >> what the wave function of the universe beyond our horizon. And what we > >> can access is not the unitary evolution of what we could earlier. > >> > >> Brent > >> > >> On 8/28/2022 1:34 AM, smitra wrote: > >>> It's a unitary map, it will evolve the past state into a > >>> superposition of many different states. One may argue that this is > >>> meaningless, as one has to choose a basis. But this is essentially > >>> what time evolution operator does for you. If you work in a > >>> particular basis then applying the time evolution operator amounts > >>> to changing that basis into another basis without affecting the > >>> state of the system in any way. > >>> > >>> Saibal > >>> > >>> On 28-08-2022 00:41, Brent Meeker wrote: > >>>> Why do you think the evolution is deterministic of our part of > >>>> universe? > >>>> > >>>> Brent > >>>> > >>>> On 8/27/2022 9:17 AM, smitra wrote: > >>>>> The time evolution operator maps past states of our universe to > >>>>> present states. So, the present state of the universe, which > >>>>> includes our conscious experience of the present state was also > >>>>> present in the early universe in a nonlocal way where there would > >>>>> be no obvious sign of us existing at all. > >>>>> > >>>>> Saibal > >>>>> > >>>>> On 27-08-2022 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > >>>>>> Even if it were sentient its thoughts would be incomprehensible to > >>>>>> us. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brent > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 8/26/2022 2:52 AM, John Clark wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 5:41 AM Lawrence Crowell > >>>>>>> <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _> I do not think much of this idea that the universe is > >>>>>>>> sentient._ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think the idea is a bit silly because I don't see any way to > >>>>>>> prove > >>>>>>> or disprove it even in theory. And in the entire universe the only > >>>>>>> thing that I know with absolute certainty is sentient is the 3 > >>>>>>> pounds of gray goo inside a bone vat that is sitting on my > >>>>>>> shoulders. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis [1] > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ibv > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >>>>>>> Google > >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2kQ_tSW8HT5bb2BSh%3Dm3gjcqV-NB8zbZFwTg8CejdFew%40mail.gmail.com > > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> [2]. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>> send > >>>>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/17ec80e2-08aa-5174-6f3f-9c807f946441%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> [3]. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Links: > >>>>>> ------ > >>>>>> [1] https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis > >>>>>> [2] > >>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2kQ_tSW8HT5bb2BSh%3Dm3gjcqV-NB8zbZFwTg8CejdFew%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > > >>>>>> [3] > >>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/17ec80e2-08aa-5174-6f3f-9c807f946441%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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