On 1/21/2024 5:15 AM, John Clark wrote:

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 7:27 PM Brent Meeker <meekerbr...@gmail.com>wrote:// /> The problem with this is that information, like complexity, has no physically definite operational meaning. You can't go into the lab and ask what's the information content of "this"./In 1948 Claude Shannongave us an operational definition ofinformation, the amount of uncertainty reduced by a message, and it ismeasured in bits.

`And Shannon's definition requires that the the possible messages be`

`predefined.`

There is also a thermodynamic definition for information, the amountof entropy that is reduced in a given system, and it is also measuredin bits. The two definitions work harmoniously together.

`Again, the thermodynamic definition depends on what variables will be`

`ignored.`

So if you know the encoding algorithm you can always determine howmuch information something has, or at least the maximum amount ofinformation a message has the potential to hold. For example, we knowfrom experiment that the human genome contains 3 billion base pairs,and we know there are 4 bases, so each base can represent 2 bits andthere are 8 bits per byte; therefore the entire human genome only hasthe capacity to hold 750 MB of information; that's about the amount ofinformation you could fit on an old-fashioned CD, not a DVD, just aCD. The true number must be considerably less than that because thehuman genome contains a huge amount of redundancy, 750 MB is just theupper bound. Incidentally that's why I now think the singularity islikely to happen sometime within the next 5 years, one year ago,before it became obvious that a computer had passed the Turing Test, Iwould've said 20 to 30 years.

`A good example, proving my point. A lot, maybe even a majority, of the`

`the human genome is junk and doesn't code for anything and you can only`

`know this by seeing how it interacts in a cell. It's "information" is`

`context dependent, not inherent.`

I think we can be as certain as we can be certain of anything that itshould be possible to build a seed AI that can grow from knowingnothing to being super-intelligent, and the recipe for building such athing must be less than 750 MB, a *LOT* less.

It takes a womb and all that is needed to support a womb.

After all Albert Einstein went from understanding precisely nothing in1879 to being the first man to understand General Relativity in 1915,

`He understood general relativity by absorbing information from`

`Minkowski, Riemann, Maxwell, Lorentz, and Grossman...not just from his`

`genome.`

Brent

and the human genome only contains 750 megs of information, and yetthat is enough information to construct an entire human being not justa brain. So whatever algorithm Einstein used to extract informationfrom his environment was, it must have been pretty simple, much muchless than 750 megs. That's why I've been saying for years thatsuper-intelligence could be achieved just by scaling things up, no newscientific discovery was needed, just better engineering; although Iadmit I was surprised how little scaling up turned out to be required.John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>98n --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sendan email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv31LubK_sNn6tRspUwfjRqvOHtf2dTDcr%2B96xBAhQmkRQ%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv31LubK_sNn6tRspUwfjRqvOHtf2dTDcr%2B96xBAhQmkRQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

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