@Alan. Is funny how you can talk about "space" without even having a definition of it. How does your talk differentiate from a delirium then ? For example, is the "space" that you talk about the newtonian one ? Is it the einsteinien one ? Is some new graysonian one ? What exactly is it ?
On Sunday 6 October 2024 at 21:01:54 UTC+3 Alan Grayson wrote: > On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 12:28:44 AM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Saturday, October 5, 2024 at 7:55:40 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Saturday, October 5, 2024 at 7:43:03 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Saturday, October 5, 2024 at 7:25:19 PM UTC-6 Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > > On 10/5/2024 4:22 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > The evidence you claim which seems to indicate an infinite universe is, > IMO, underwhelming. It seems to indicate a flat universe, and thus infinite > in spatial extent. However, there is a small error in the measurement, > which is what one would expect if the size of the universe is exceedingly > huge and and approximately spherical. > > That's a troll's remark. One expects error in any empirical measure. The > best estimate combining various sources in 2013 for the deviation from > flatness was Omega_k=0.002*+*0.009. And the WMAP7 and supernova data > implied -0.12<Omega_k<0.01; so the greater deviation was in the negative, > open infinite universe direction. > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.3000 > > > Name calling will get us nowhere. Yes, there are always measurement > errors. I should have noted that fact. But another fact is that if the > unobservable universe is sufficiently large, it will be impossible to > distinguish flat from slightly spherical. AG > > Moreover, if we run the clock backward, ostensibly, the observable > universe is smaller in the past than at present, > > Bullshit. That's assuming what is to proven. If it's infinite then it > was always infinite. You can't even keep you logical inferences straight. > > > I was explicitly referring to the *observable* universe, which is > definitely finite with a measured distance to the horizon of 46 BLY. > Moreover, since the observable universe is expanding, and there's ample > evidence for that, think cosmological redshift, then if we run the clock > backward, it will be smaller. That's what all the diagrams show, and it's > indisputable. I don't have a clue why you characterize that as BS, or that > I'm assuming what you think should be proven. AG > > > Brent > > and had a beginning as evidenced by the CMBR. Applying the Cosmological > Principle, there's no apriori reason to assume the unobservable universe > behaves differently. That is, smaller and finite, and will come into view > as we go backward in time. OTOH, I do believe the underlying substratum > from which our bubble emerged, is likely infinite in spatial extent. AG > > > While the data you reference does have a bias to support your argument, > the fact that the observable universe had a beginning, and therefore the > unobservable as well, I find it hard to believe that the unobservable part > began as spatially infinite. I think we need new physics to explain that, > or maybe magic. AG > > > You should keep in mind that there's a generally held belief in the > physics community that when a theory contains or implies an infinity, > there's something awry; that is, something is not right with the theory. > Your theory of the origin of our universe contains such an infinity, aka a > *singularity*, where at its origin point or time, it instantaneously > expands to, or reaches infinity of spatial extent. So, regardless of the > fact that data from the Planck satellite tends to support your theory, I > remain seriously doubtful. AG > > > Note that in the case of S's cat, it is allegedly in the simultaneous > state of |alive> and |dead> only when the box is closed, so the > *unintelligible* claim is *unverifiable*. I think the same applies to > your claim as well for superposition. AG > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/02126f54-a70e-4efa-bc0e-52c0e3615ffdn%40googlegroups.com.
