On Sat, 2002-12-14 at 23:35, Jeffrey Stedfast wrote: Ian: > > > > With all due respect, 'Standards' is a tricky notion. You can have a > > standard, but if there is even a large _Minority_ who don't use it, then > > the 'standard' means little. Reality is such that standards are set by > > what is usable. If it ain't usable, 'standards' don't mean a whole lot. > Jeff: > When I say standard, I mean IETF standard. > > The goal of this project is to be IETF standards compliant. If you want > something else, then you'll need to start your own project and/or join > another project that aims for whatever it is you want. > Ian: I would love to have that ability. Unfortunately I'm not a programmer. My role is much different. As mentioned below, I love Evolution and believe that the developers have done a tremendous job. > > > > I love Evolution. But unfortunately, when it comes to signatures and > > encryption, it's very unusable with most of the people I communicate > > with. As much as I'd love to convince those people to switch to Linux, > > and even use Evolution, it's not going to happen any time soon. > Jeff: > There are several other ways around this (none of which involve them > switching to Linux): > > 1. use gpg on the console and copy/paste to/from evolution > 2. convince them to enable the PGP/MIME support in their NAi PGP plugin > (I hear that the NAi PGP 7 plugins support this - and would presume that > the PGP 8 plugins do too). > 3. convince them to use Mozilla Mail and/or Eudora Pro which support > PGP/MIME (or some other client)
Ian: Sorry, but you don't seem to 'get it'. I'm a user. I love this software. I am simply providing you with input from a 'user' point of view. Reality is that I am not going to convince people to switch just for me and what I like and love. My intent was not to get into an argument with you. I thought perhaps some other opinion and comments from a useability standpoint might be helpful to you, if you're open minded to understand the issues some people face. Jeff: > 4. implement inline pgp for Evolution and send us a patch that meets all > requirements (refer to http://bugzilla.ximian.com bugs #17540 and > #17541) - or just implement a patch that doesn't meet the requirements > and use it for your own needs (or put it up on your website for other > people to download and use) but don't bother sending us a patch. I wish I could. But I'm not a programmer, and my comments are from a user's point of view, not a programmer's point of view. And as a paid subscriber to Ximian. I figured I could help out in someway by putting my money and support to ongoing development because I really like what Ximian has to offer, especially Evolution. > 5. give up on signing stuff and accept the fact that interoperability > will just Never Happen (tm) That is a most unfortunate attitude. Wouldn't it be great if we could have interoperability? Are you interested in what users would like to see? Or do you think that only programmers that can write patches use Evolution? > > > > > In the real world, usability is also a standard. My income depends on > > being able to communicate with others via email. As much as I'd love to > > be a rebel and argue with folks about whether they are using software > > that meets 'standards', it would be foolhardy of me to do that. I'd > > lose customers and clients that will end up going to someone who uses > > software that is easier for them to deal with on their end. And in the > > end, this is the 'standard' that will become most important, whether we > > like it or not. > > so don't argue it, and just accept the fact that they don't interoperate > and get on with your life by doing #1, #4 or #5 (your choice). Heh. Thanks for the advice. Again, great attitude here. :) No more suggestions or issues from me. One less person that will provide you with input. And, while I'm at it, I'll cancel my subscription to Ximian, will not bother anymore with thoughts about recommending this to my corporate clients. You're right. There are other choices. You really don't seem to get it. I am sure you are frustrated with comments from non programmer types like me, that don't know what the hell we're doing, don't understand the issues you face, and just want something that works for what we're trying to achieve. On the other hand, it's frustrating for users to hear this kind of attitude from programmers - that old 'go find something else' or 'go do it yourself' speech whenever someone points something out to them. I myself am willing to pay for the product or support it's development in ways that I am able. Creating patches is not something I can do. But if you want an email list where you just have a bunch of happy programmers talking about patches and where everyone is happy, and there's no input about what is frustrating from a USER point of view, then... I guess I'm on the wrong list. Look, as I said.. I think Evolution is a GREAT piece of software, and I'm really happy with most of it. My comments above were not meant to be taken personally by any developers. I HAVE recommended it to others, convinced others to use it, and thereby introduced a good number of people to Ximian. This one issue though is a frustrating one, and I know I am not the only user of Evolution to find it so. But, you've told me exactly where you stand, and that's enough information for me to now realize I've been recommending the wrong thing to some. Sorry for the rant, but my intent was not to argue it - rather provide you with a different 'Outlook', so to speak :) (pun intended). _______________________________________________ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
