Pretty much as I understand the latest theory of bee flight but put much
better than I could have done. But it does prove that the formula presented
by Jennifer may not hold true for everything that flies. However, is a
deflated bird flying or just a projectile being shot from some device?

Coming back to bees it is with great sadness to know that at least the
humble bumble bee in Britain is reducing in numbers, no more honey for us!

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Tuip [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 04 January 2002 13:04
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question



Obviously bumble bees do fly but no fixed wing study in a conventional
wind tunnel has shown how enough lift can be generated to lift the huge
mass of a bumble bee (compared to its wing size). A wide range of
studies have been done in recent years to try to understand the bee's
unique method of flying. 

Insects like the bee do not flap their wings up and down as one might
think. The movement of their wings is forward and backward. Lay your
right hand on the table (palm down) and move it to the left. That is
what the bee does as the first part of its wing beat. This movement
produces lift because your hand produces the same effect as an airplane
wing. Air moving over the top produces a low pressure because of the
greater curvature, a principal known as Bernoulli's principal. Now flip
your hand over (palm up) and return it to its original position. 

Computer studies shown that the timing of the flip is critical. The wake
of the forward stroke allows the wing to recapture energy as the wing is
moved back. There is a surge of forces on the wing as this happens which
provides great lift at minimal energy. Dr. Adrian Thomas of Oxford
University says, "The whole system is a lot more complicated than we
thought." A lot remains to be done to understand this, but the
maneuverability and efficiency of it indicates man needs to understand
to improve his own methods of flying. 

To suggest that such systems come about by chance strains credibility to
the limit. The enormous complexity of the motion, the design of the
wings to do the flying, and the support system that moves the wing all
speaks of highly planned and designed structures that we still do not
totally understand.


Does that answer your question?

Martin Tuip
MVP Exchange
Exchange 2000 Listowner
www.exchange-mail.org

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bendall, Paul
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:59 PM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question


I am impressed with all this theory but to digress slightly, can you
explain how a bee flies?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Tuip [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 04 January 2002 12:55
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question


You forgot the cross wind factor.


Martin Tuip
MVP Exchange
Exchange 2000 Listowner
www.exchange-mail.org

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jennifer Baker
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:49 PM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question


How fast does a deflated bird fly?

(Translated from Office XP Thesaurus)

If it's deflated then it's flat. Therefore:
L = (1/2) d v2 s CL
L = Lift, which must equal the Bird's weight in pounds 
d = density of the air. This will change due to altitude.
v = velocity of a flat bird expressed in feet per second 
s = the wing area of the bird in square feet 
CL = Coefficient of lift

Looks like you have left out L, d, s and cl.  Therefore it's a trick
question.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:29 PM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question


What is the air speed velocity of an unladen sparrow?

Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP
Tech Consultant
Compaq Computer
"There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems."

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel Chenault
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:55 PM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: Re: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question


You asked three questions:
What is your name?
What is your quest?
What is your favorite color?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Exchange Discussions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question


> You didnt answer my last question. ;)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Chenault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 4:14 PM
> To: Exchange Discussions
> Subject: Re: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question
>
>
> After 5.5 SP2 the Received headers were counted. The limit is set to
> 512 I believe (don't know if this can be changed). Does the RFC say 
> what constitutes a trivial loop? Not really.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Exchange Discussions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:47 PM
> Subject: RE: Was: Question from a troll to a Yoda - Now: RFC Question
>
>
> > Since we are on this subject again, maybe someone can answer this
> > for me since I got nary a response last time:
> >
> > 6.2 Loop Detection
> >
> >    Simple counting of the number of "Received:" headers in a message
has
> >    proven to be an effective, although rarely optimal, method of
> >    detecting loops in mail systems.  SMTP servers using this
technique
> >    SHOULD use a large rejection threshold, normally at least 100
> >    Received entries.  Whatever mechanisms are used, servers MUST
contain
> >    provisions for detecting and stopping trivial loops.
> >
> > What mechanism does Exchange use to detect and stop loops? What
> > constitutes a "trivial loop"? Are these stupid questions?
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Scharff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:21 PM
> > To: Exchange Discussions
> > Subject: RE: Question from a troll to a Yoda
> >
> >
> > If you take the time to read RFC2821 you can answer those questions,

> > and many others for yourself. http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html
> >
> > Chris
> > --
> > Chris Scharff
> > Senior Sales Engineer
> > MessageOne
> > If you can't measure, you can't manage!
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tener, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:29 PM
> > > To: Exchange Discussions
> > > Subject: RE: Question from a troll to a Yoda
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > um... is it really not obvious?
> > >
> > > 1) There are too many recipients in the email (that's the TO:
line)
> > >      Whats the max amount would this be on the my server or the
> > > recievers server
> > > 2) The email is larger than the message limit (that means
> > > it's too big)
> > >      and what is the limit in size that someone can send out.
> > > -- Drew
> > > ********************************
> > > Visit http://www.drewncapris.net!  Go!  Go there now!
> > > "Each time a person stands up for an idea, or acts to improve
> > > the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, (s)he
> > > sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other
> > > from a million different centers of energy and daring, those
> > > ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest
> > > walls of oppression and resistance." --Robert F. Kennedy
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tener,
> > > Richard
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:17 PM
> > > To: Exchange Discussions
> > > Subject: Question from a troll to a Yoda
> > >
> > >
> > > Can any Yoda tell me what this error or NDR means. I have seen
> > > about 8 of them today.
> > >
> > > 1.) A mail message was not sent due to a protocol error.
> > >
> > > 553 Too many recipients in the mail, should less than 100 The
> > > message that caused this notification was:
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.) A mail message was not sent due to a protocol error.
> > >
> > > 12107454 bytes exceeds server limit of 5120000
> > >
> > > The message that caused this notification was:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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