Only after we've dealt with all the list trolls. -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hummert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 19:22 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers
Wouldn't the easiest solution to all of this be killing all lawyers? -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 11:19 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Also, I could simply claim that I am not bound by contracts which I did not sign. Copyrights (note the spelling) are enforceable by law. You could, I imagine, copyright an e-mail, but you I don't think that I have ever seen a disclaimer that has the line: C2002 Ed Crowley or the like, which is all that is technically required to apply a copyright to a publication (as I understand it but I am not an attorney). So the issue is not copyright. By receiving an item by e-mail I do not submit to being bound to any contractural agreement, just like I am not bound by any contractural agreement associated with every single piece of postal junk mail I receive. As far as I am aware, no law says that I am. So, in your judgment (you aren't a lawyer either, are you?) should I reply to every piece of e-mail that has a disclaimer with a message of my own notifying said correspondent that I am not bound by the legalese of their disclaimer? Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles Carerros Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:28 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers I wasn't clear..sorry palm pilot has taken up two days because I cant get it to sync..and I'm way beyond being frustrated bye it.. But to clarify. Adding a disclaimer to an e-mail is like adding a citation to item under copywrite. You show, very plainly, that you understand the sensitivity of the information and because you have to manually enter the e-mail address you show that you are aware of who you send it to. To add to that you can go into contract law and pull out court cases that argue wither online "click Ok to agree" type of contracts are not legal. You only need to argue that if digital contracts are not always legal, how can you claim that a disclaimer that is placed on the end of an e-mail (and you can argue that as a standard practice that you stop reading the e-mail if you get to one) can some how hold a legal suit against you. They can't, because disclaimer are not law (where being ignorant of law does not protect you from punishment) you cannot legal enter a contract (such as is implied with a disclaimer) without some proof of knowledge of it. So, if you add the disclaimer to your e-mail, you are stating, "Yea, I _know_ that this is sensitive stuff but if I send it out no one can use it in anyway or I can sue them." I'm not sure, but I bet a good lawyer could use that type of angle to destroy all legal ramifications that would favor a disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:47 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers I don't understand how this relates to disclaimers one way or another. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles Carerros Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:58 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers If you get a lawyer out of the office and talking like a human being, (I did this once) you get really interesting information. Like one told me once that if you create a website with all "borrowed" copywrited materials you should NEVER site the source of the materials in thinking that if you site the source all obligations go away. What you are really doing is giving the lawyer half of what he needs to prosecute you. (Fair use and copyright is based on knowledge of use and then the extent that the use effects the market, in a nutshell that's it). So if you steal something or want to make a lawyer work you DON'T put a disclaimer on it, that way your foreign ignorance and thus bypass the law. Not that I would ever suggestion such a thing. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Helfer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:41 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Hmmm. Maybe the SPAM-filter people have it all wrong, and what they should really be doing is pattern-matching on variations of "this is not an unsolicited e-mail" Opting-In on some exciting offers for herbal viagra in Pittsburgh Jim Helfer -----Original Message----- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 5:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Just like the disclaimer that comes on 50% of the Spam I get that says that "this is not an unsolicited e-mail". Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dupler, Craig Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:08 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Do you think her data was right? I tend to think that the law of bailments applies to all e-mail and probably trumps other legal arguments. I don't think you can become a bailee by force of someone else's actions. I am not aware of this case having been made in court yet, but it is sitting there waiting for the first lawyer that needs it to grab it and go. Also, disclaimers can be used against the one doing the disclaiming, as they might in some circumstances provide prima fascia evidence that the person doing the disclaiming was perfectly aware of the risks being assumed, and is thus in no position to claim an exemption from responsibility. Let's say I send you a note that is in effect an invitation to join a pyramid scheme. Then at the bottom I add a disclaimer that says the invitation is void if it is legally found to be a pyramid scheme. Can I play dumb or somehow exempt because of my disclaimer? I don't think so. In fact, I think the disclaimer is tantamount to a confession. -----Original Message----- From: Slinger, Gary [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:37 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Not casting aspersions, and it may already be known to the list, but Elizabeth should probably have disclaimered (sorry <g>) her message with a comment about Clearswift's involvement with MIMEsweeper. Gary -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Farrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 16:41 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers http://www.emaildisclaimers.com/ "There are several reasons why you might decide to add disclaimers to your e-mails. The reasons can be categorized into two groups: legal and marketing reasons. 1. Legal reasons If you were to be so unlucky to be sued for the contents of an e-mail, it is not certain whether an email disclaimer will protect you from liability in a court of law. However, it will certainly help your case and in some situations might exempt you from liability. More importantly, it may well prevent the actual occurrence of lawsuits against your company since the mere presence of the statement might deter most persons from seeking legal compensation from your company. Therefore the use of disclaimers is always recommended. There are 6 legal threats that disclaimers can help protect against: Breach of confidentiality: By including a disclaimer that warns that the content of the e-mail is confidential, you can protect your company against the exposure of confidential information. If the receiver breaches this confidentiality, they could be liable. Accidental breach of confidentiality: If an employee were to receive a confidential mail from someone and by accident forward it to the wrong person, the employee, and therefore the company, could be liable. This can easily happen. For instance a wrongly addressed e-mail can be forwarded to a postmaster, who might not be authorized to read the mail. Furthermore, e-mail can easily be intercepted. If you include a statement at the end of your mail that the message is only intended for the addressee, and that if anyone receives the e-mail by mistake they are bound to confidentiality, this could protect you. ........ etc. etc." -----Original Message----- From: Chinnery Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers I'm still fighting the battle of "we don't need no stinkin' disclaimers." So far, I've won. BTW, has anybody ever heard if those disclaimers actually hold up in court? Paul Chinnery Network Administrator Mem Med Ctr -----Original Message----- From: Woodruff, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Alright, alright. There. Fortunately Mailsweeper allows you to bypass by adding personalmail in the body somewhere. Are you happy? -----Original Message----- From: Mellott, Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers if it's a litmus test -----Original Message----- From: Erik Sojka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers Does printing the message out and pissing on the paper constitute "action"? > -----Original Message----- > From: East, Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers > > > I'm taking action on your message. I'm taking action on it right now. > Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. > > Tell your lawyers to get their $49.95 back from "J.D.'s 'R' Us." > > -- > be - MOS > > Noone ever built a statue to a critic. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Woodruff, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Subject: RE: stupid disclaimers > > > > > > Do think this was my design? Our lawyers think we need > this. Like it > > actually performs some kind of function. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Scharff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Subject: stupid disclaimers > > > > > > I think I might just start blocking messages with moronic > > disclaimers before they even get to my system. I feel dumber just > > for having read the disclaimer below. > > > > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential > > > information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is > > > protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > > should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or > > > distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on > > > it, is strictly prohibited. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Clearswift monitors, controls and protects all its messaging traffic in compliance with its corporate email policy using Clearswift products. Find out more about Clearswift, its solutions and services at http://www.clearswift.com ************************************************************************ **** **************************** This communication is confidential and may contain privileged information intended solely for the named addressee(s). It may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been sent. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Unless expressly stated, opinions in this message are those of the individual sender and not of Clearswift. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Clearswift by emailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] quoting the sender and delete the message and any attached documents. Clearswift accepts no liability or responsibility for any onward transmission or use of emails and attachments having left the Clearswift domain. _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
