SPAM -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Erik Sojka Sendt: 22. december 2003 19:46 Til: Exchange Discussions Emne: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the types of consulting engagements. One such type: "I want to put in a new email system. Please tell me which system from all of the major players would fit in my environment." Another such type: "I've already decided that Lotus Notes is the email system for me. Please draw from your vendor-specific expertise and help me with my deployment." There are others of course. You seem fixated on the ethical problems that might arise with a vendor-biased consultant being hired for the first of my examples. In this first example, you are completely correct in pointing out the very real conflict of interest. I cannot and should not expect completely neutral recommendations from a person who markets themselves as an expert in $vendor's technology. Logic would dictate that the consultant would recommend the technology that they are affiliated with. You have completely and repeatedly ignored the possibility of the second (and IMO more frequently occurring) type. If I am already running a $vendor shop, I want to hire the best talent I can. I would expect that the best talent I can find would be familiar with $vendor technology. The decision to use a particular vendor has already been made. By me. Without any prodding or cajoling by said consultant. > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:32 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > OK, I can be childish as well. > > You PROVE it. Prove to me that accepting gifts from vendors and then > turning around to clients and providing information and services about > and from those vendors is NOT a real or perceived conflict of > interest. > > You prove that false. > > > Prove it. It is your opinion, not a fact. Everything you > cite is made up > > in your own mind. > > > > Again, you are mixing up fact and opinion. What you believe is not > > necessarily what is true. That appears to be especially > true in that > > special place known as Deckler-Land. > > > > By the way, surrounding your claimed invitation to be an > MVP, who invited > > you and when? I don't recall you ever offering much > positive peer support > > in the forums, but I do recall that you were considered to > be a heckler way > > back before Exchange was even a product with a SKU. I find > it hard to > > believe that you would ever have been welcomed as an MVP. > Care to prove > > this assertion as well? > > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Greg Deckler > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:10 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > You can be offended all you want, it does not change the > FACT that accepting > > a direct gift from a vendor creates an obvious problem with > basic conflict > > of interest rules. I don't make these rules up all I have > stated is that a > > real or perceived conflict exists. If the argument held no > water, then there > > would be no reason to be offended. > > > > > It's not exactly a gift. It's a recognition for a > contribution pefrormed. > > > There are, admittedly, strings attached, although there > are none that > > > I consider to be ethical issues. > > > > > > I completely resent your entire assertion that I am > somehow unethical > > > because I accept the title and gifts associated with > being an MVP. I > > > will defend my standards of ethics against anyone's, > including your > > > poorly defined and indefensible set. In fact, I was > nearly fired from > > > my current job because I defended ethical behavior, but > the system > > > worked and I am still here. (This was completely unrelated to > > > anything surrounding Microsoft or MVP.) > > > > > > So, let's get back to the real argument. Please either > (1) prove how > > > being an MVP is unethical, or (2) go away and let this > thread rest. I > > > tire of your repeated extrapolations, digressions, and > > > less-than-brilliant treatises. > > > > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Greg Deckler > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:51 AM > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > > > The flaw here is that that "Cisco Certified" has clearly defined > > > things that must be met and requires a payment to the vendor to > > > achieve. You must PAY to get the required material. You > must PAY to > > > take the tests. You must PAY for the certification. > > > > > > MVP is a gift. There are no explicit requirements and there is no > > > exchange of currency. > > > > > > This is the CLEAR difference between certifications and > gifts like MVP. > > > > > > > Titles based on criteria that has been successfully > met, as in MVP > > > > or Cisco Certified, etc., has no ethical issues. It is > an earned > > > > title that denotes an area of expertise. It is up to > those who view > > > > the title to determine if the criteria for getting the title > > > > warrants a level of trust and respect. > > > > > > > > Personal gifts from vendors that you make purchasing decisions > > > > regarding is unethical. > > > > > > > > Rules of ethics are necessary in this business. > > > > > > > > Ceaselessly arguing in order to have the last word is > poor use of > > > > brain power, poor use of this list and poor use of > ethics. Anyone > > > > whose priority is to *always* win the "fight" must > sacrifice the > > > > truth and good judgment, thereby violating basic ethics. > > > > > > > > Just another opinion :-) > > > > > > > > Best Regards,=20 > > > > > > > > Dan Bartley > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:24 > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > > > > > I got to the first paragraph in your post and pretty much quit > > > > reading.=20 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > > Web Interface: > > > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-> > bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode > > > =&lang > > > =english > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Web Interface: > > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&t ext_mode=&lang > =english > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang= english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang=english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang=english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
