On Sep 21, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:58:08 +0200, Jeremiah Foster
config mechanisms quite aggressively, in an effort to handhold those
same clueless newbies.
So heartwarming to read in black-and-white the deep respect developers
have for users.
As far as I know, Marc Sherman is neither affiliated with exim nor
with Debian development.
Unfortunately calling users "clueless newbies" is not an aberration.
This has the effect of steepening the learning curve quite
drastically
for people who are just beginning to leave clueless newbie
territory.
All people need is to read the docs. They don't.
This is partly true. The debian documentation is not centrally
located,
obtuse, and has tangential relevance to the documentation on the main
exim web site.
The central location for documentation on Debian (and on every
FHS-compliant Unix System) is /usr/share/doc, and thus
/usr/share/doc/exim4-base/README.Debian should be impossible to miss.
The README file references a lot of other documentation which is
either in the doc directory, or in a manpage, or in the configuration
itself.
A smaller spec file is a more realistic option
Exim's specification is, like, a specification. It exactly describes
how exim behaves and is an excellent piece of work - as exim itself
is.
What Exim is indeed lacking is freely available user-level
documentation in tutorial style, with Philip's Book probably being
closest approximation.
as is
greater participation by the community to maintain wikis etc. I have
followed Marc's suggestion to create a document informing people of
where documentation lives. My preliminary document is here -
http://devmodul.com/documentation/exim/
exim4_debian_documentation.shtml
Please note this is a work in progress.
Basically looks like a standards-compliant 404.
Sorry, it was a misspelling, should be available here;
http://devmodul.com/documentation/exim/exim_deb.shtml
Clue is an unfortunate term. It is condescending and perjorative. The
issue really is how easy is it to install and run and how clear is the
documentation. To state that all failures running exim4 are due to the
"clueless newbies" is specious and indicative of the willful disregard
free software porgrammers in general have for users.
It is like the willful disregards that most users have for prominently
visible documentation.
I disagree. Many users feel daunted by a spec file which runs 27,000+
lines when all they want to do is move from Sendmail to Exim. They are
not intentionally refusing to read the documentation, just failing to
find what you call the user-level documentation in tutorial style.
No wonder tools
like Ubuntu are so popular, the world wants to use secure, good
software but installing debian is nearly impossible for many people.
This is not a fault of the users, this is a fault of the developers.
Which MTA does Ubuntu use by default, and from where was the packaging
pulled?
I was using Ubuntu as a metaphor. It has been designed from the
beginning as an easier to install and use debian. This demonstrate the
fact that users have been left out of the equation with debian
developers.
I have no reason to impugn the work done by Mr. Hazel et. al. The Exim
software and documentation is amazingly good. But for debian package
maintainers to claim that all fault lies purely with the users when
problems configuring exim pop up on exim-users is not taking
responsiblity. Users have an obligation as well of course, there is no
excuse for not clearly understanding the software when it is well
documented. Still, usable documentation should be a priority not an
afterthought.
Jeremiah Foster
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