Kirill,

Think you haven't got through the "hussles" of UK immigration since mid 80s,
and you never would, as you chose some sidekick ways to sort out your
personal visa issues, rather than go through the lengthy but wisdom way to
do legal booziness, and your choice for doing that is here. I mean, with the
attitide you have you may work out your expatriation in this country, but
not in an "educated" environment.

If you ever be there for an employment you would see even more
discrimination. Not to say about customs ;) But, if you are employed in UK,
you may afford to spend some of the pounds to get a legal support, hopefully
or by the willingness to do that. I see you chose not to spend a penny in
Russia for doing good thingies. 

Over that, I would share experience that any kind of an entity working in
Russia tries to go an unusual and sidekick way. Why for the Lord noone here
does nothing to read the instructions from the FMS and be prepared to the
hussle? Why for the ack problems come out unexpectedly? 

There is nothing unusual but read the laws and especially the agrrement
between EU and Russia of 2007! Why for the ell we, Russians, have to obey
the rules, and some expats don't?

You tell me that you have to go various ways to get registration,
bla-bla-bla - which of these was legal? Why you did not say thay you want to
be cleared off legally and not at your expenses... Who would protest that if
you are the king in media? (What I remember then is the TNK-BP quarrel).

Why don't you come to Pokrovka 42? All Chinese are there and do things
quietly and every day. Why your company does not take responScibility of you
to help you there?

The law is simple: the company you are employed with takes care of your
presence there at the legal adress, medical care, terms of your stay and
emigration if you violate the laws. If the company or you rents an apartment
for you to live in, then the company or your tenAnt provides the LEGAL
ADDRESS registration. Is this clear?

Why should you chose the "cheap" or "inexpensive" way to get the penny saved
when you have to pay pounds (sovereigns) after to find a safe "escape"? Who
the ell tells you you may break through the rules, even laws?

Never complain if you broke the rules. I remember one idiot straight after
the 1991 putch who decided to stay longer than the visa and said rules have
changed (wrongly) and he was arrested in S2 and stayed there two weeks until
we found him out and paid the fine and let him out. Even then, immigration
worked well despite all of the collapse in the system. Do you really want
not to be let in for 5 years? Now then, can you afford that?

Please, take care, and never complain that your experience is bad. It was
wrong, and this is simply because you thought and still think corruption may
help you here...

And, you still owe a drink to my sister who helped you. Give her a call at
least..

PS This was only my mersonal humble opinion resulting from the experience I
have from what I had and have still and this does not imply.... Whatever the
right words whould be there... I tried to speak out in simple language... 
PPS I really don't know how to help, all my invited visitors, boozinessmen
and friends do receive my personal advises how to avoid "hussles" and...
bullocks, and I even give them the introductory lessons how to survive in
Moscow, Russia and especially in metro.
PPSS Sorry for mess, this was a sudden cry out, but really why noone does
take care before the problems come? 

Finally, I did want not to send this to the list... Then was my sudden
decision to do ;)

Sincerely,
Sergey Orlov,
Marketing Director,
Electronintorg SP,
No telephones this time... 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kirill Galetski
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:17 AM
To: Бургхардт Дэвид Адам
Cc: The Moscow Expat List
Subject: Expat List Visa registration in Russia

David,

Ahhh, but if only life was so simple! In theory, what you say is the way it
should be, but this being Russia, in practice, it is not. I had been in
Russia "legally" the whole 10 years that I lived there, and I never had the
companies I was working for register me. 

The powers that be make it so much of a pain in the ass that most companies
don't bother.

To give you two examples:

Work visa: I used to work at a Russian news agency that is not the one you
work for and that will stay unnamed (at least in this public e-mail) and
even though this is a Russian resident legal entity, they employed their
foreigners through a subsidiary registered in the Isle of Man, so there was
no way to have the foreign employees registered through the company.
Everybody had to do it through their landlord, and this presented tremendous
problems for me, since my landlady lives in the U.S. She would visit Russia
every so often, but at inopportune times when I was already registered
through other channels. Visa agencies wouldn't register my visa since it was
a work visa, so I had to resort to some creative means to get myself
registered. I was then registered successfully. If you're interested in how
I did it, you can e-mail me off list, but the way I did it wouldn't work
under the current registration regime. 

Jouranlist visa: I then decided I'd had enough and went to get a journalist
visa through a trade magazine I was writing for, because I'd heard that
journalist visas were easier in terms of some things.
In terms of some things, they are, e.g. as a U.S. citizen you can still get
them at any Russian embassy, not just U.S. ones or select ones with hassles
(U.K., Ukraine). In terms of registration, it was easier, however, in order
for the company I was working for to register me, i.e. the trade magazine,
it had to have a legal presence (registration, an office) in Russia, which
this particular trade magazine did not -- I was its sole correspondent in
Russia. I had to find all this out piecemeal on my own, as my curator at the
foreign ministry press office didn't know jack shit, and I even had to pay a
2000-ruble fine because of him, because he sent me to the migration service
foolishly conjecturing that they would register the visa (the foreign
ministry press office doesn't register their own bloody visas, go and
figure, and now I know that the migration service doesn't either) when they
said Op! You're unregistered, pay the fine! I then went to Go to Russia and
they registered  my visa practically no questions asked, although the last
couple of times, they did so "so skripom" as they say in Russian.

I don't know if this is still anything like the '90s, but I do know that a
good saying about Russia is the more things change, the more they stay the
same.The Russian legal environment still unfortunately makes doing many
things the legal way excrutiatingly difficult or impossible.

All I can say, David, is thank your lucky stars that you never had the
hassles. A lot of people did and some still do.

Kirill.

E-mail: [email protected]
Home: +49 (0)30 67 92 58 58
Office: +49 (0)30 28 87 58 72
Mobile: +49 (0)152 23 66 68 96
Skype: kirill.galetski

-----Original Message-----
From: Бургхардт Дэвид Адам <[email protected]>
To: "Kirill Galetski" <[email protected]>,"The Moscow Expat List"
<[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:48:38 +0400
Subject: RE: Expat List  business visa registration

> The question always comes to mind...if you're here legally, then you don't
need to go through the hassle. Your company is obliged to register you, not
your landlady. I've lived here for 15 years and have never had to do mad
searches to live here legally. If you're here on business, then just do it
right...it's not the 90s any more folks!
> 
> David Burghardt
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kirill 
> Galetski
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Expat List business visa registration
> 
> Hi Sean,
> 
> I used to have the same problem all the time when I lived in Russia.
> 
> I know how it's still a pain in the ass to ask your Russian friends to
register you.
> 
> I've used two different agencies to do registration of a business visa.
> 
> Visa link were usually pretty good for registering business visas that
weren't initiated by them:
> 
> http://www.visalink-russia.com/
> 
> I also used Go to Russia when my visa was not a business visa, but a
journalist visa initiated through the foreign ministry press office (which
Visalink couldn't register) :
> 
> http://www.gotorussia.com/about_us_directions.htm
> 
> Both agencies were reliable in handling the registration, and the fees
were 1400 rubles and 1800 rubles respectively when I did it. Could be more
now, so check directly with them before you go.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Kirill.
> 
> Regards,
> Kirill Galetski,
> Russian-English, German-English translator.
> 
> E-mail: [email protected]
> Home: +49 (0)30 67 92 58 58
> Office: +49 (0)30 28 87 58 72
> Mobile: +49 (0)152 23 66 68 96
> Skype: kirill.galetski
> 
> http://kirillgaletski.language123.com/
> 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:02:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Sean McMeekin <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Expat List  business visa registration?
> > To: [email protected]
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > 
> > 
> > Does anyone know of an agency which will register a delovaia visa, no
questions asked?  Last time I was in Moscow (2005) there was some quickie
agency which sprung up in the Tsentralnaia gostinitsa on Tverskaya to do
this, but apparently this old classic 'hotel' no longer exists.  My issuing
agency is asking for a landlord declaration, etc., which I cannot really
get.
> > 
> > I can always resort to asking one of several Russian friends to register
me personally as a guest at the post office or police, but I would rather
not ask for this sort of favor if I don't have to.  All I need is for the
V'ezd card to be stamped.  If anyone knows an agency which will do this,
please let me know.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Expat mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://www.lists.ru/mailman/listinfo/expat
> http://www.expat.ru/forum/
> 




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