I never saw a CL until I met the penguin. It's the best thing that ever
happened. Because of a video card conflict I couldn't get into KDE to
configure KPPP to connect to the net-but if learned I don't have to. It
doesn't matter. I did it with CL. It's just one more tool winflop doesn't
offer.
Pj
At 12:38 AM 8/21/00 +1000, you wrote:
>Mallard wrote:
>
>> You need to READ SOME MANUALS to be able to program a Mac. You may have
>> to LEARN SOMETHING, and would probably have to spend as many hours as it
>> takes to learn "vi".
>
>I'm always somewhat amused by Neal Stephenson's "In the Beginning was
>the Command Line", when he writes of the Macintosh Programmers Workshop
>(basically a development environment);
>
>"The first thing that Apple's hackers had done when they'd gotten the
>MacOS up and running - probably even before they'd gotten it up and
>running - was to recreate the Unix interface, so that they would be able
>to get some useful work done ... the Mac's vaunted graphical user
>interface was an impediment, something to be circumvented".
>
>So you've got the developers of the Mac unable to do any useful
>developing using the WIMP interface they designed (does nobody else
>think that the term WIMP was invented by hackers who thought that by
>using this interface users were wimping out of actually getting to know
>their machines?) They needed a CLI to actually program the thing. But
>then, I still sometimes wish the Mac had never been invented, and that
>Apple had developed the II line - the IIGS was really quite an
>incredible machine. Hell, it got sued by the *Beatles* (sort of) for the
>Ensoniq synth chip - and AFAIK this is the only Apple computer
>(including Macs) to ever ship with real hardware synth. *And* you can
>run Unix on an Apple IIGS using GN/OME (not the X-windows thing, this
>was developed far earlier).
>
>> One thing is for sure, if you did write a program,
>> it couldn't require all sorts of cool "switches" and some geeky define
>> like program [erftgtgds] [file:tpty] [orthis-geekything]
>> [gre/ggdd/d/df//d.f/d/f/] \ gjgj d\diirrpv
>
>True, the Mac has a very user friendly interface. But when you click,
>your pretty much setting the sort of switches you're complaining about.
>The Mac is not a hackers machine - ie you can't easily get down into the
>basis of the system and see what's happening, play with it - you can't
>see exactly what switches are being set. And I recommend Macs for
>anybody who doesn't want to do this - if you want a computer to actually
>do work with and nothing else, I don't think you can do better than a
>Mac. Check back with Linux in a year or so.
>
>> If a Mac user has to read a manual, the program sucks!
>
>True - but only so far as you're talking about a Mac *user* - not a
>developer.
>
>> GREAT! forces the geeks to not be geeks! Damn they hate that.
>
>IMHO you can't use a Mac and be a geek/nerd/hacker etc. This is because
>the Mac will not let you get inside it easily, and I think that anybody
>who really want's to know how computers work will want to get into every
>little thing that's going on. NB this is not saying the Mac is a bad
>thing - just that it's better suited for people who don't want to play
>with system internals.
>
>> DOS? Like I said before, it's not 1983 ANY MORE! this command line crap
>> is for the birds.
>
>Don't you want to fly like a bird, rather than a flying toaster?
>
>> You should be using some sort of GUI minimum to access
>> remote machines (like servers). Talk about a waste of time.
>
>I think it's all what you're used to. If you know the CLI then it
>certainly isn't a waste of time - it will run faster than a GUI simply
>because the machine doesn't need to use as much memory/processing power
>to draw pictures for you.
>
>> I think its all a way for geeks to keep their day jobs. make the exec's
>> think you are worth something because you know some cryptic commands you
>> can type in. The more crap you remember, the more you move up the geek
>> ladder. Why do people hang on to VT100 80 X 24 1983 technology like its
>> some sort of wonderful thing?
>
>Because VTxxx *is* a wonderful thing in a lot of ways. Read up on it
>before you say it's out of date. Can be very useful for hooking up old
>machines that can't handle a GUI, but can still be useful.
>
>> Get a life!
>
>A nerd with a life? Surely that's an oxymoron. :-)
>
>> Yes, I used to save my programs on paper tape, but if I did it now at a
>> Linux meeting, I would be god like!
>
>Damn straight! Just as cool as running Doom on a camera, for all you
>Slashdot readers. :-)
>
>Tom
>
>
>
