On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 17:29 -0500, J. Craig Woods wrote:
> Randy Kramer wrote:
> >
> > BTW: No offense intended, but this strikes me as close to a newbie level
> > question (unless the details that you haven't provided so far indicate
> > otherwise). What made you post it on "expert"? Again, no offense, and
> > I don't consider myself an expert, but I usually try to post my
> > questions to what I think is the more appropriate list, and if that was
> > newbie, "escalate" it to expert only if I don't get a satisfactory
> > response on newbie. Seems to me that was the intent of having a newbie
> > and an expert list, and probably helps to avoid traffic for experts that
> > don't want to be bothered with newbie level questions. (There are very
> > expert people who lurk on the newbie list and answer questions.) If I
> > misunderstand the reason for the two lists, maybe one of the list
> > veterans can provide a different insight?
> >
>
> Randy,
>
> Your comments are most germane, and tastefully inserted as an addendum
> in your reply. Unfortunately, the distinction you delineated between
> newbie and expert list has, over the few years I have been here, pretty
> much been loss. There are a number of reasons for this to occur. One
> reason would simply be the subjective nature of differentiating between
> a "newbie" problem and what constitutes an "expert" problem. I have said
> it here before, and I'll say it again: I would humbly estimate that
> about 60 to 70 percent of the postings on this list are within the
> "newbie" range.
>
> If you or others have a subscription to other UNIX type lists, you will
> readily see how this situation is handled. There are usually a few "list
> nazis" who do not hesitate to make the newbie feel very uncomfortable
> about posting a problem that would have been easily solved by a RTFM or
> STFW.
>
> Because the Mandrake expert list is for Mandrake Linux solutions, I
> believe it will always be as it is: a "kinder, gentler" sort of list.
> And, as such, you might as well acclimate yourself to the reality that
> this list is really just an extension to the newbie list...
>
> I hope I have engendered some thoughts on this issues, and hopefully we
> might see some thoughtful responses...
If there wasn't this last sentence about 'thoughtful responses' I would
not have bothered to jump in. ;-)
IMHO the lists were just what they were, a list for expert probs and
issues and a list for newbie Qs & As. But this has changed over the time
out of several reasons:
1
People sometimes tend to overestimate themselves and/or their problems.
So some users may say, I don't post on the newbie list because I'm not a
newbie. Or others may think, My problem is one of the most mind boggling
problems, it cannot be answered on a list full of newbies. Or if so it
may show that I am a newbie myself.
Wrong. After working with Linux for a couple of years now there are a lot
of issues and areas where I regard myself as a newbie (i.e. I never
bothered about Samba and Apache, so in those areas I'm a newbie).
2
Some folks think the distinction between the lists is very straight: here
newbies and there experts. So they post all questions to the expert list
because they think that all the experts are only there.
Wrong. A lot of newbies can and do answer other newbie questions because
a lot of the newbie questions are also FAQs and may hve just been
answered the day before. Furthermore some real experts are lurking on the
newbie list and do a great job there. They have really understood one of
the pillars of the Linux Community.
3
Some users start out asking questions in the newbie list because they
regard themselves as newbie. But for this or that reason their Qs will
not be answered in the newbie list. So they move the issue to the expert
list and get their answer/solution. After doing that a couple of times
they think, hey, why not save time and post to the expert list right
away?
Wrong, but understandable.
I'm not too annoyed by this mingling of the lists. There are some real
newbie Qs I read where I store away the answers for future reference.
What I do not like are those "list nazis" (while, being a german, I don't
really appreciate the term) you mentioned. *Everybody* has been a newbie
once! And everybody who uses this wonderful piece of software is obliged
to give something back to the community.
I get a lot of mails from german users who think I am part of support and
start out like: I have this problem with your software, you must help me.
Most of their Qs are the typical 1st time questions (How do I create a
new directory, How do I find my drive C:, etc.). I cannot write a short
mail with "Buy a book, learn" and nothing else. I answer their Qs and
then I give a short (8 lines) tutorial about this "Buy a book, RTFM, Try
yourself and come back later" scheme.
All of you who read so far have my heartfelt sympathy!
wobo
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