EFI and restrictor? Hell, put 4 30mm carbs on it. That will restrict it! Bill Schmidt 88 RD Kawi
>>> "Chuck Voboril" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04/19/07 12:41 AM >>> Latest Bike Mag HP This is PURE stock-no aftermarket header, special muffler or anything special added. 108 rear wheel HP for the Honda. Add about 4 HP more for a header and remap. (It is 8 HP more on a Honda 1000cc bike) Total rear wheel HP should be at least 112 HP then with what you want to allow on a F600. (header, mufflers, and remap) Could therefore see approximately 17 HP more than the strongest Rotax at the rear wheels. About 3 less HP with a Suzuki. If the ultra close ratio 6 speeds actually do end up in the wrong gear sometimes, the F600 wil have to resort to blocking in the corner, that's all. Restriction sounds like a good idea to keep the middle to end of straightaway passes from being too embarassing to the Rotaxes. BUT After the F1000 rules group decided on restrictors, they changed their mind because of problems with the typical EFI running way too rich when it saw a restictor. Not sure if that is easily fixable with a remap, but the idea of restrictors was totally dropped fro F1000. Perhaps Stan can shed some light on that. Jay's basic parts cost is what I would figure. Then add labor to make a system that fits, add profit if you make it for someone else, and then add price of a ceramic coating+ ceramic wool and header overwrap. Chuck >From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: RE: [F500] 600cc power >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:22:09 -0400 > >Perhaps you might want to make a set for me when we know what really fits. > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris >Reinhardt >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:05 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [F500] 600cc power > > > Jay, I tried the S&S Header route with my CBR600RR, they were a bad fit, >and poor quality=cheap price. Also, they sat too low, forcing me to make >the engine sit up higher. I'm a pipe welder, and I specialize in santary >purged stainless food grade, no problem, I'll make them myself. > I just wouldn't trash the packing... > > CR > >Jay Novak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Check this link out Cory. It shows all the HP of many of the current >production bikes. > >http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/046_0607_middleweights_dyno_testing/ > >Also please remember that these charts are for rear wheel HP. When put into >a car they will loose another 5 hp (approx) due to the additional tire. I >expect that these engines will make 10 hp or so more than your top F500 >engine. However they will not have the advantage of a properly tuned CVT >(which is great, BTW). > >In the end the only way to tell what things are all about is to track test. >I really expect that they will be very close to the top cars with the right >drivers in both cars. We will find out in a couple of months. > >PS: I ordered a set of right side headers for a Mini-sprint today from S&S >headers as well as one of their all aluminum mufflers. > >Total cost: > >Headers - $224 >Muffler - $159 > >Total - $383 > >See what the top pipe & manifold for a Rotax costs. > >By the way I am going to post this on the Formula Car eforum > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cory >McLeod >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:42 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > >Jay, > >Thanks for the response. Wasn't a test of 600cc bikes just published in >Bike News (or something like that) that showed they were all making around >120 hp? > >Cory > >Jay Novak wrote: >Good question Cory. If the car has that kind of power (I really do not >think so) we would probably have to make adjustments to the package. I >think the best solution is to reduce the HP if necessary. How this is best >achieved, in my opinion, it to restrict the inlets of the engine with a >single inlet restrictor or a throttle body orifice in each throttle body. I >suspect that the throttle body orifice is the simpler solution as there are >2 mini-sprint sanctioning bodies that do that right now. > >The other alternative is to increase weight but in my opinion this is >counter productive & will produce cars that are quicker in different places >on the track. > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cory >McLeod >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:58 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > >Jay, > >Based on the quality and success of your previous designs, I'm sure you >have a fully thought out plan for the F600 concept. With a target weight of >825 and a 120 hp engine, there will need to be some serious performance >adjustments to truly make this an alternative (no all caps needed) to the >current cars, rather than obsoleting them. What adjustments do you think >would make sense to the package or our existing cars? > >Cory > >Jay Novak wrote: >Hi Chris. We will be doing testing & demonstrations of the concept at >between 825 & 850 lbs. It is my goal to define if the alternative engine >concept has merit. I will be putting as many current F500 drivers in the >car that I can on Friday test days. If we race it it will be as an FS, but >just tons of test day miles wherever we can. > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris >Reinhardt >Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:02 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > >Was that a yes or a no??? ;) > >CR > >Jay Novak wrote: >Just estimating the weight. > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris >Reinhardt >Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:24 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > >Jay, I guess you don't plan on running FS??? > >CR > >Jay Novak wrote: I predict that our Rakavon with >the GSXR600 will weigh 825 lbs with the >driver. > >Thanks ... Jay Novak > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris >Reinhardt >Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:26 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > >If was running a 493 and I was 250# that would be 120# more than my normal >weight of 180# and a 494 min weight. Not optimal, but doable... > >CR > >Chuck Voboril wrote: >Chris- >50 to 150 pounds extra is something to think about. > >You are in for a little retuning of the suspension. > >Bigger brakes and more tire wouldn't hurt either. > >Jay plopped his new GSXR600 into his chassis and said something like >"Hmm, I think I need shocks" in one of his posts. > >Chuck > > > > > > >From: Chris Reinhardt > >Reply-To: [email protected] > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:18:10 -0700 (PDT) > > > > Here's the deal Chuck, probably for the 15th time.... > > I'm keeping the car as much a F500 as possible for a number of reasons. > > I don't think you can add any more brake in the car with 10" wheels, if > >I change to 13" wheels, it will put the addition strain on the chassis >that > >you speak of. > > Min weight with the 493 is what? 850# with driver? If the 600 powered > >car gets a 100# handicap that's 900#, not too far off.... > > > > CR > > > >Chuck Voboril wrote: > > Chris , as you break things or continually get outbraked into the > >corners > >then those other things will have to change. > > > >But build it and have a good time. The snow will leave soon-time to get > >out to the garage > > > >Just letting you know what the min weight is. > > > > > >Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Chris Reinhardt > > >Reply-To: [email protected] > > >To: [email protected] > > >Subject: Re: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:15:15 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > Chuck, all those parts are the same..so far, so the additional weight >of > > >the motor, and a hunk of lead in the nose will have to surfice... > > > > > > CR > > > > > >Chuck Voboril wrote: > > > Chris, you will indeed be one up on the crowd if you get your chassis > > >developed by running in FS now. > > > > > >The min weight for FS is 750# without driver. > > >That's about 950# with the average 200# driver. > > > > > >That should allow you to incorporate all the extra strengthening needed > >in > > >the chassis to accommodate the larger motor weight and HP/torque, >larger > > >axles, larger uprights, and larger brakes. > > > > > >Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Chris Reinhardt > > > >Reply-To: [email protected] > > > >To: [email protected] > > > >Subject: Re: [F500] 600cc Time Line -& Concern > > > >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:06:32 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > I myself plan reguardless to get the car homologated as both F5 and > >FS. > > > >When and if the 600 gets the green light, I'll be ready, at least > >partly, > > > >because I'm sure there will be other changes that will need to be > > >done..... > > > > Since FS is the only place we can play for the time being, I would > > > >sugest anybody else that's thinking about it, to do the same so we >can > > >all > > > >play together... > > > > > > > > CR > > > > > > > >Steven Dodd wrote: > > > > To all the two stroke fans (myself included) and to those who may > >think > > > >that this whole four stroke movement will put an end to our > > >fun......Well, > > > >I > > > >was reminded by a very neutral party today that even if this ever >gets > > > >done, > > > >we won't see this in the GCR before 2009. > > > >So we won't see any big number of cars fielded before 2010. That made > >me > > > >happier than free beer!!! > > > >Maybe it would be wiser for those who are converting their cars to > >600cc > > > >power now, to convert back until we see a rule change. If not, your > > > >presence, or lack thereof, may be the straw that breaks the Camels >Back > > >and > > > >takes us from Nat'l contention. > > > >Come race with us now-then throw in your four stroke after we >survive. > > > >SCCA is keeping score on our present participation. > > > >Steven Dodd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? >Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > > > >--------------------------------- >Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 >5:53 PM ________________________________ FormulaCar Magazine - A Proud Supporter of Formula 500 The Official Publication of Junior Formula Car Racing Subscribe Today! www.formulacarmag.com or 519-624-2003 _________________________________ _______________________________________________ F500 mailing list - [email protected] To unsubscribe or change options please visit: http://f500.org/mailman/listinfo/f500 *** Please, DO NOT send unsubscribe requests to the mailing list! ***
