This was really sweet, RJ. I've been missing this voice for many months.
L B S --- In [email protected], "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One will note the origination of Brahmi script as named for Saraswati, a > Dravidian Goddess, "Wife of the Originator Brahma", Devi, and original lineage of tantra which stems from Her Divinity Herself. One could further wonder if Brahmi, as Saraswati, might not also be the Dakini of the Dakini script used by the Awesome Yeshe Tsogal, and sung in such hymns as Song of the Vajra. Perhaps it takes a Shakta at heart to be able to really pretty much disregard Vedism as so much male oriented fundamentalistic braggadocio. The Vedas themselves mean nothing. If they are eternal then they haven't helped people yet because we're still in the same boat. The only people they are really manifestly helping are the partriarchal and fascist Brahman caste of India. I find it really odd how people will tout spiritual ideologies without considering that they may only really deprive them of the human rights and democracy which 4 centuries of reason and rationaity of the West has promoted. One can argue that Vedic times were better but that's just really a pipedream, there's no proof that any time in history was ever better than this moment, and it's much the breakdown of Vedism in India that has promoted the rights and values of humans there, not its reestablishment which is synonomous with the BJP and fascist racial riots. I'm happy for those of you however who feel that you've found your path in Hinduism. It must feel great to have finally made a decision after all these centuries of searching. Finally your quest is over, you can go back to sleep now. Lucky you. Myself, I'm still looking always for a better way. I never felt that sleeping Vishnu would be able to wake me, but thats just my problem, I guess. My guess is also that most Brahmins want you to remain sleeping as well. So long as the money keeps flowing. Jai Guru Dev. You say it's all the Vedas. I say, the Vedas are 4 books, sung by a potentially fascist caste of slave holding dogmapalas. You say the Vedas bring enlightenment. I say they are just greater mental masturbation than ever before as they extol nothing useful whatsoever, that is, unless you're a Brahman. Of course MMY is now saying that the apurushaya ved includes the puranas, dharshanas, and most of the other literature. Again, another pundit, this one larger than life, only now exacerbating the value of his own religion to much more fundies heights than even Shankara dared. Round and around and around we go, I'm shocked that most of you guys don't remember all the terrible treatment we received as slaves under the Brahmins. I must have taken a vow to always reming You of this in a past life, because it is so obvious to me. Vedism creates monsters and fanatics. > > If you think not, then go criticize a Brahmin and see the look you get. > Anyone ever has a Maharishi Jyotish reading? I'm sure these pundits who took your 300.00 didn't rise when you entered the room, nor shake your hand, nor nod their head, you Silly Western Cash Cow. Should this spiel sound as if it denies the value of TM then no. I have done nothing but extol the virtues of Sri Vidya, the Holy Tradition of the Northern Shanks, which is where the TM mantras come from. If you listen to our puja you hear the accolades of the male descendents of Vedism, but what is really enlightening you is the stream of awareness of Shrii, which stems back to Brahma's wife Saraswati, who is the real Shakti behind our tradition. So go Swami, Go Swami. (Brahmananda Saraswati) Frankly I'm personally sick of the lack of fundamental human rights of people who have been shucked off by their fiduciaries. And in spite of puranic stores to the contrary India is split between haves and have nots in an epic battle the likes of which weren't recorded since the Mahabharata. What's they battle? The battle for basic rights for all. You Vedism is a door stop in the door of freedom for millions. I wish it weren't so. But it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Vaj > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:59 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Development of Scripts in India > > > The Development of Scripts in India > > Until the discovery of the Indus Valley Civilization in 1920, ancient > India seemingly had two main scripts in which languages were written, > Brahmi and Kharosti. The Brahmi script developed under Semitic > influence around 7th c. BC, and was originally written from right to > left. The Kharosti script came into being during the 5th c. BC in > northwest India which was under Persian rule. Although the origin of > the Brahmi script is uncertain, the Kharosti script is commonly > accepted as a direct descendant from the Aramaic alphabet. The > direction of writing in the Kharosti script is as in Aramaic, from > right to left, and there is also a likeness of many signs having > similar phonetic value. > > In the later centuries of its existence, Brahmi gave rise to eight > varieties of scripts. Three of them - the early and late Mauryas and > the Sunga - became the prototypes of the scripts in northern India in > the 1st c. BC and AD. Out of these developed the Gupta writing which > was employed from the 4th to the 6th c. AD. > > The Siddhamatrka script developed during the 6th c. AD from the > western branch of the eastern Gupta character. The Siddhamatrka became > the ancestor of the Nagari script which is used for Sanskrit today. The > Nagari developed in the 7th to 9th c. AD, and has remained, since the > 7th to 9th centuries, essentially unaltered. > > However, certain other factors need to be considered to get the > complete picture of script development in India. In 1920 archaeologists > announced the discovery of extensive urban ruins in the Indus Valley > which pre-dated the earliest literary sources and which caused scholars > working on ancient texts to re-examine their views on the different > phases of Indian culture. The Rig Veda which speaks in such derogatory > terms of the enemies subdued by the Aryan tribes, gives the impression > that they were all savage barbarians. The Brahmins for centuries have > degraded the original inhabitants of India with the intention of self > elevation, preservation and oppression. These ancient dwellers in India > were Dravidian, and in fact, their culture had developed a highly > sophisticated way of life which compares favorably with that of > contemporary urban civilizations in Egypt and Mesopotamia. > > The extensive excavations carried out at the two principal city sites, > Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro, both situated in the Indus basin, indicates > that this Dravidian culture was well established by about 2500 B.C., > and subsequent discoveries have revealed that it covered most of the > Lower Indus Valley. What we know of this ancient civilization is > derived almost exclusively from archaeological data since every attempt > to decipher the script used by these people has failed so far. Recent > analyses of the order of the signs on the inscriptions have led several > scholars to the view that the language is not of the Indo-European > family, nor is it close to the Sumerians, Hurrians, or Elamite, nor can > it be related to the structure of the Munda languages of modern India. > If it is related to any modern language family it appears to be > Dravidian akin to Old Tamil, presently spoken throughout the southern > part of the Indian Peninsula. > > What this points to is the existence of a system of writing far more > ancient than what was originally considered. For instance when the > Indian scripts are grouped, the southern scripts form a class of their > own. The Grantha alphabet, which belongs to the writing system of > southern India, developed in the 5th c. AD and was mainly used to write > Sanskrit. Inscriptions in Early Grantha, dating from the 5th to 6th c. > AD are on copper plates and stone monuments from the kingdom of the > Pallavas near Chennai (Madras). > > The influx of foreign invaders through the northwest over the > centuries, forced the Dravidians, the original inhabitants of India, > south. Scholars have indicated that the south has been the gateway for > religious and cultural developments in India. Originally Grantha was > used for writing Sanskrit only, and Sanskrit was later transliterated > with Nagiri after the 7th c. AD. Scholars over the years have indicated > that many Hindu writings have been tampered with, and certainly this > could have happened during the transliteration process. The later > varieties of the Grantha script were used to write a number of > Dravidian Languages, and the modern Tamil script certainly seems to be > derived from Grantha. > > The bibliographical evidences indicate that the Vedas are written in > the Grantha and Nagari scripts, and according to tradition Veda Vyasa, > a Dravidian, compiled and wrote the Vedas. The Grantha script belongs > to the southern group of scripts and Veda Vyasa being a Dravidian would > certainly have used it. Since the earliest evidence for Grantha is only > in the 5th c. AD, the Vedas were written rather late. > > Another important fact is brought out in the account of the religion, > philosophy, literature, geography, chronology, astronomy, customs, laws > and astrology of India about AD 1030 by Alberuni (edited by Dr. Edward > C. Sachau). He states that, > > "The Indian scribes are careless, and do not take pains to produce > correct and well-collated copies. In consequence, the highest results > of the author's mental development are lost by their negligence, and > his book becomes already in the first or second copy so full of > faults, that the text appears as something entirely new, which neither > a scholar nor one familiar with the subject, whether Hindu or Muslim, > could any longer understand. It will sufficiently illustrate the matter > if we tell the reader that we have sometimes written down a word from > the mouth of Hindus, taking the greatest pains to fix its > pronunciation, and that afterwards when we repeated it to them, they > had great difficulty in recognising it." > > This is a clear opposite to Yuan Chwang's time in the 7th c AD, when > this young Chinese Buddhist scholar came to India in search of > authentic sacred books which he accomplished. However, scholars > indicate that the same is not true with early Tamil classics like the > Sangam literature (3rd c. BC - 3rd c. AD) which are remarkably helpful > in the reconstruction of history (K.K.Pillai, Tamil Literature as > Source Material for History - Journal of Institute for Asian Studies). > > The first epigraphic evidence of Sanskrit is seen in 150 AD and this > inscription is in the Brahmi script. > > Extracted from the Encyclopedia Britannica, 1982. > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 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