-----Original Message-----
From: Vaj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: soma .. was: New Vedic
Translation?
Hi Mark:
On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:43 PM, mark robert wrote:
> If you are talking about the Rig Veda, saying that it is the
real
> teaching on Soma (and that it�s external), I agree with you.
What I was talking about was modern reconstructions of an alleged
"Vedic yoga" by the TMO which really has no basis in a lineal
system of
enlightenment (unless yo consider chanting priests such a
system).
Having said that, I'll say what I have said before. The vast
majority
of what the TMO *calls* "Vedic" is in fact (not theory,
supposition or
legend) NOT Vedic.
There is a vast literature in Indian pre-Vedic texts on a lunar
substance associated with the higher chakras. There is a further
possibility that the "sama", the Vedic hymns themselves, do not
date
from "Vedic times/the Vedic era" but back into the remote past
(the
Treta yuga). These ancient sacrificial hymns were appropriated by
by
the Aryans and codified into their present form.
Alongside these Aryan "soma cults" exist, up to the present day,
the
remnants of the pre-Vedic soma cults (who didn't necessarily use
the
words soma--there are numerous other words in the Sandhya Bhasya,
the
Twilight Language). They preserve a full yogic path utilizing
BOTH
inner and outer "soma". Very little is left of Vedic religion. No
person or no text or no lineage has come forth demonstrating a
palpable
Vedic soma praxis linked to enlightenment. The Vedic trip is
primarily
a Brahmin priestly trip mixed with earlier Tantric materials.
The TMO soma system is basically a reconstructed system
attempting to
capture a way to attain via Vedic means. Most of its methods
however
(mantras, yoga, etc.) are not Vedic at all.
> �But whether you are or not:
>
>
> IF you equate the Rig Veda�s age with its Vedic importance,
THEN you
> must face up to its most apparent message: THAT Vedic
enlightenment
> was an effect only obtained from the consumption of an
elaborately
> prepared external substance.
I posit that what went before the actual Rig Ved, etc. was more
important. It is very possible the Rig Ved itself is a pre-Vedic
trad.
appropriated by the Aryans (but not necessarily via "invasion").
> Was RV-Soma the same as modern TMO-Soma? Many say �no� and try
to
> claim a difference as support for the latter over the former,
but that
> is backward logic. Since TMO-Soma has always been represented
as Vedic
> (by MMY), any criticism against (or distancing from) RV-Soma
texts is
> foolhardy - SINCE the RV is the heart and source of everything
Vedic.
There is actually very little left of true Vedic religion.
Hinduism, as
it exists today, is primarily Agamic and Tantric.
Shanti,
Vaj
-----------------------
Vaj,
Thanks for the inside history of the "vedic religion". Very
"enlightening" but also very likely. Kinda sounds like what a lot
of researchers (and regular folks who read them) are saying about
the Christian religion: that it was all borrowed from older
"religions" and does not really qualify as a religion itself. Of
course you could probably say the same about ANY spiritual system
or cult or canon or superstition or belief system that has ever
existed: that they borrowed most of their details from previous
folks and times and places (and became intermingled).
That being said, I don't believe my point (that TMO-Soma can not
disclaim RV-Soma) is lost. In relationship to TMers and the name
of this list, the point is extremely relevant. In other words, if
you believe in any type of TMO-enlightenment or TMO-Soma, it
behooves you to "realize" that the two concept's main claim to
fame is the Rig Veda. And therefore you should know the basic
message of the Rig Veda concerning its soma and enlightenment.
I'm not sure your points on fragmented Vedic history really
address the integrity of RV-Soma texts regarding the main theme.
Do you feel that the texts were so corrupted by the time they
were written, by a chaotic mixture of influences, that the basic
message of something external being prepared to produce an
enlightenment is a distortion?
I would like to suggest a better perspective. All "religions" are
far more fluid than they would like to "believe". According to
them, they are a finite set of inflexible doctrines. According to
us, there is little coherence to them. But it is looking more and
more like, amongst all the chaotic fluidity, there remains a
common theme hidden deep within them. As counterintuitive as it
is, the common theme would appear to be: "Take a drug and have a
religious experience". Sorry for the message being so depraved
and devaluing to human spirituality, but that is the essence of
the research that I continue to see more and more. I know it's
not a pleasant thought for many, but truth trumps all preference.
-Mark
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
