Interesting response. I suppose that if you adopt the TMO's attitude of screwing everyone you can hire pandits and pay them a pittance. Why not? Personally, I think it is unethical, so we pay our pandits generously. Sure, we could hire them for 100 rupees a day but why not honor the knowledge and the pandits by being generous?
If we take Dana's assertion that they can get a pundit for 100 rupees, then imagine the profit margin the TMO makes on a TMO yagya! So they charge westerners thousands and pay the Indian pundits a few dollars...this is ethical? As for the supplies...free? Really. I doubt it. Ghee is never free. And 800,000 coconuts? Sure, just go down to the corner and pick 'em up. The TMO has always been organizationally challenged. Why should it change now? The 100,000 will never materialize and I'll bet that eventually we in the US will be blamed for it...not enough support, purity, terrorism, or maybe too much democracy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dana Sawyer's comments on Ben Collin's assessment of the 100,000 pundit > yagya: > > The figures below seem absurd to me - for many reasons. But what comes to > mind first is that MMY needs to find someone else to purchase materials > and labor for his yagyas. I hire pandits in Banaras, to do translations > and search out texts, at a rate of two hundred rupees per day (less than > five bucks) and that is a good pay check. So paying pandits 40 bucks per > day to do yagyas is outrageous. Second, materials are basically free, no > matter what this email states. You can buy coconuts everywhere in India > for five ruppees per (12 cents). Further details if you want them - and I > still want to know where this activity is supposedly taking place, so I > check it out. BTW, Shankaracarya ashrams don't pay nearly the amount > claimed for yagyas. I've just been with two of them > > Dana > > > > > Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thursday, March 31, 2005 at 7:16 PM > wrote: > > > > > >------ Forwarded Message > >From: benjaminccollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> > >Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:04:05 -0000 > >To: <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Photo proof positive of Pundit project. > > > > > > > > > >We do yagyas and generally pay our priests $40 a day which is the > >going rate for Sr. level pundits. We pay the same as the > >Shankaracharya Ashram which typically pays the best rate of any > >temple, etc. For a 5-10 priest yagya we add about $100 a day for > >yagya materials and food (we feed the priests lunch as is tradition). > > > >My $100 per day per person was a guess that attempted to factor in > >travel, lodging, per diem, yagya site, yagya materials, support staff, > >etc. Admittedly it is a guess, but based on the 108 priest yagya, it > >seems to me to be in the ball park. > > > >If you do a yagya in a really traditional manner, there are always > >special ingredients that are hard to get but important. Some yagyas I > >have seen require upwards of 50-60 differnt kinds of herbs, seeds, > >wood, leaves, vines, fruits, flowers, etc. > > > >As an example, a typical yagya will use 4-5 coconuts. So if you have > >4000 groups of 25 using 5 coconuts a day for 40 days, that is 800,000 > >coconuts! > > > >Another example is that a typical yagya will use 1 quart of ghee per > >priest. So you have 250,000 gallons of ghee per day for 100,000 > >priests! (1 million gallons for the 40 days) Each repetition of the > >mantra requires about 1-2 tablespoons of ghee so it is difficult if > >not impossible to reduce the amount if you are doing a genuine > >traditional yagya. > > > >Finally, the yagya fire is traditionally made with cakes of cow dung > >(not wood). For a 5 priest yagya we burn 1 bushel of cakes in a 2 > >hour yagya. So, if they have 4000 groups of 25 around 1 fire, let's > >say they'd use 5 bushels per day for a total of 800,000 bushels of cow > >dung. (there's a joke here that I will let you make yourselves!) > > > >I read somewhere that MMY is wanting to do the Sudarshana Yagya. The > >main Sudarshana mantra called Sudarshana Mula Mantra. It is about 20 > >lines long. It has significiant power. The thing is that I learned > >this mantra and have participated in many yagyas with a priest who is > >a specialist in this mantra. It took me 5 years before I experienced > >any power from it and I can not ever remotely come close to Narasimha > >who has been doing this his whole life. There is a process of > >empowering a mantra that takes time regardless of whether someone is a > >Brahmin or not. So in my mind, training becomes an issue. I mean, > >anyone could learn this mantra in a few days. But it won't have any > >significant effect... > > > >I'm not necessarily saying that MMY can't make this happen, but look > >at some of the physical and logistical factors and you can see that it > >is a pretty gigantic task! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > Thanks Ben. Yes, I know $10 was low ball, I just wanted to show that > >> > even at that very conservative figure, its expensive. But $100 seems > >> > high. What is the rate the puja.net pundits are paid? I thought > >it was > >> > a "high" rate, to attract the best, around $20-30 / day? > >> > > >> > Your figure of 300-500 rupees is $6-10 /day. Are ingredients / > >pundit > >> > that expensive? > >> > > >> > Also, the various constraints discussed in this and adjacent posts > >> > point to the need for more net pundits, not just utilizing existing > >> > ones. I know only Brahmins are allowed to be pundits. Are there > >> > sub-castes of Brahmins from which most pundits come? Some sub-castes > >> > of Brahmins that cannot become pundits? Also women cannot be pundits > >> > can they? > >> > > >> > Presumably the caste restrictions have to do with a genetic > >propensity > >> > to chant correctly / optimally. How valid do you believe > >> > this is? > >> > > >> > Instead of importing pundits, long run it would seem prudent and > >more > >> > efficient to train pundits locally. In the US start training local > >> > boys and girls. Not from a long line of genetic brahmins. What are > >> > your thoughts on this? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminccollins" > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > A decent yagaya will cost a LOT more than $10/day. A qualified > >> priest > >> > > will want to be paid at least 300-500 rupees per day and will > >expect > >> > > to be transported, housed, and fed. Are they expected to > >> campout for > >> > > 40 days? If not, then where will they be housed. > >> > > > >> > > The yagya itself will require lots of materials (ghee, fruits, > >> > > sandalwood, etc. which are not cheap even in India. But with > >> 100,000 > >> > > priests then you are talking (literally) tons of fruits, coconuts, > >> > > ghee, flowers, etc. I honestly doubt that the physical > >> infrastructure > >> > > would be there to simply move all these materials to the site on a > >> > > daily basis without major amounts of chaos. > >> > > > >> > > And consider the support staff which will have to be > >considerable; > >> > > cooks, people to manage all the yagya supplies, etc. Figure > >> that for > >> > > every 50 priests you will need another 10-15 people and they too > >> will > >> > > want to be paid, need to be housed and fed. > >> > > > >> > > Bottom line? If it could be organized...then it would take > >125,000 > >> > > people in total and your total costs per person would be at > >> least $100 > >> > > per day. A lot of money for 40 days... > >> > > > >> > > As a point of perspective, I helped organize a 1 week yagya > >with 108 > >> > > priests in India for Michael Love's 61st birthday several years > >> ago. > >> > > It was a logistical nightmare...we pulled it off but it took > >a huge > >> > > amount of work. As I recall, we spent about $35,000 which > >would be > >> > > close to $50/day and what we did was very simple. > >> > > > >> > > Finally, in India priests are divided into 2 categories; temple > >> > > priests (bhattars) and "outside" priests (shastrigal) who perform > >> > > pujas/yagyas in people's homes etc. The temple priests would > >not be > >> > > able to participate in the large scale yagya because their temple > >> > > duties are very rigid and rather strictly enforced. Long term > >> > > absences are not generally an option. > >> > > > >> > > That leaves the shastri's. How do you contact them? There is no > >> > > organization...no database...no master phone list. And you > >want to > >> > > make 100,000 phone calls..in India?! > >> > > > >> > > The other option is to create priests...get 100,000 people and > >teach > >> > > them a mantra and a simple yagya. But even then, to be done > >> properly > >> > > you would have to have a real priest supervising and doing the > >more > >> > > complicated mantras that area done for a yagya. Say a ratio of > >> 1 real > >> > > priest to 25 new priests and you still have to find 4,000 > >qualified > >> > > priests. Even then in the hands of beginers the mantras will have > >> > > (relatively speaking) no power. So what's the point in doing it? > >> > > > >> > > Finally, from recent reports, MMY wants to do this yagya as a > >> > > Sudarshana Yagya. Sudarshana is Vishnu's weapon; a discus of > >light > >> > > given to him by Lord Shiva. The times I have seen a priest > >who has > >> > > mastered the mantra use it are very very impressive. It is not a > >> > > gentle peace love and understanding sort of mantra. So if MMY > >pulls > >> > > this off, we can expect some fireworks in some form. > >> > > > >> > > Ben > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminccollins" > >> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Not > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
