Thanks, Turq, both for the further response and the image of the monk 
provided.  Fine stuff.

**

--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Marek Reavis" <reavismarek@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Turq, yes and no, really. Except for your experiences in places 
of 
> > power that you had no prior expectation of anything special, I'd 
say 
> > no; the reason being that there was some, albeit perhaps slight, 
> > anticipation of something special in the other instances you 
> > mentioned.  For instance, the museum show: right there you have 
both 
> > a formalized proscenium as your setting and the context of ritual 
> > and religious objects, particularly for you who as a student of 
> > meditation and Tibetan Buddhism, would certainly have some 
interest 
> > (and you did because that's why you went), but also even for 
> > the "lay" people who walked into a special place to see a special 
> > show.  
> 
> It's possible. But I really *wasn't* expecting 
> anything; I had felt anything remotely like
> "darshan" emanating from an art object in a 
> museum setting only once before, with a statue 
> in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. So I wasn't 
> looking for it in Albuquerque, or with Tibetan 
> art in general. I own a great deal of Tibetan 
> art, and I get a real hit from only one of the 
> pieces.
> 
> > And as an aside, 'artifacts' are essentially the manifest 
> > respository of someone's attention; the more time putting one's 
> > attention on something and the more fundamental the underlying 
> > intention underlying that attention was, the more power (I feel) 
> > the object can hold and radiate.  
> 
> That's it exactly. Before the Albuquerque show,
> the only two ancient artifacts I ever had gotten a
> real hit on darshan-wise both had that quality,
> of having "captured" years or even decades of an
> interesting being's aura and attention field.
> 
> One was the statue in Amsterdam. It was in the 
> Asiatic Wing (which I *highly* recommend if you
> haven't been there...second only to one other
> Asian Art museum in the world in my experience),
> Japanese, carved in wood. There is a photo of
> it in the Web version of my book, which you can
> look at directly here:
> 
> 
http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/pics/art/OneOfTheTenGreatDisciplesOfB
uddha.jpg
> 
> or in context here:
> 
> http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm30.html
> 
> The magic is in the subject matter, which is in
> the longer URL above. The artist was a simple
> monk, nameless. We will never know who he was
> because spiritual artists didn't sign their names
> to their art in that culture at that time. And 
> whoever he was, he was wise enough to know that
> he really couldn't do justice to a sculpture of
> a Buddha. If you're not enlightened, how can you
> even *begin* to grasp what a Buddha is, much less
> do a portrait of him.
> 
> So this anonymous artist chose instead a fellow
> monk, One of the Ten Great Disciples of the Buddha.
> *Him*, the monk could identify with. And he put 
> all of that identification and a lifetime's worth
> of attention into his sculpture. It survives still, 
> centuries later, and yes, it *radiates* that 
> attention big-time. IMO, of course.
> 
> The other object that I get a hit on hangs above
> my bed. It's a 17th-century high lama's robe, from 
> a famous Tibetan monastery. The Sixth Dalai Lama,
> my favorite character in history, taught in that
> monastery for many years, during the same period. 
> The robe would only have been worn on ceremonial 
> occasions, during which the high lama would dance 
> through the dimensions for his followers. 
> 
> I don't get a real hit on this one from merely 
> looking at it, although I obviously did when I ran
> into it in a tiny Tibetan store that was going out
> of business. The magic happens when you wear it.
> Suffice it to say I do, from time to time. It's
> like putting on the mindset of the man who wore
> it first. 
> 
> But other than that, it's not like I'm a relic 
> freak. I really don't get much of a hit from objects
> that many others consider holy relics. There are 
> sculptures of dancing Shivas in the Rijksmuseum,
> right next to the statue I like, that are worth
> millions of dollars, and are considered some of the
> best examples of that style of art still existing
> on the planet. And yet, just a few feet away from
> them, unregarded and unnoticed by most of the 
> tourists, is a simple, 3/4-life-size statue that --
> in my opinion as a perceiver -- outshines the 
> dancing Shivas completely.
> 
> So I don't think I was really "set up" for any
> particular experience when I walked into the museum.
> What I experienced took me completely by surprise.
> 
> > A religious icon or murti or ritual implement, 
> > made first with the intensity of attention such an object 
demands, 
> > coupled with the long and fervent attention of others who have 
used 
> > or appreciated or meditated on the object over a long period of 
time 
> > builds up and carries a lot of that shakti (attention).
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> > As to Rama's golden glow zap, sure you didn't see it coming, but 
> > you've written before about his ability to tune in and turn on 
> > certain folks, yourself included, so that doesn't fit what I was 
> > asking about, either, though it sounds totally fine and wish I'd 
> > been there myself.
> 
> I guess the thing in this instance was that I didn't
> know he was there until he walked up and said, "Gotcha."
> I didn't even know he was in town. Last I'd heard he
> was in Maui, and I'd thought he was still there. It turns
> out that he was standing about fifty feet behind us in
> line, waiting to see the same movie, and had decided to
> give us a little surprise. So he'd done whatever he did
> for several minutes before he walked up to us, to the
> point where we noticed it and wondered what was happen-
> ing, before we actually knew he was there. Go figure.
>  
> > The unexpected power places does fit what I was talking about, 
> > and I've had those experiences, too.  But what I'm interested 
> > in is if anyone's had the experience of getting high from someone 
> > that they didn't know or have any reason to expect anything out 
> > of the ordinary from. You know, Guru Dev in a crowd, Buddha 
> > traveling incognito, God rummaging through the trash looking 
> > for something either edible or recyclable.
> 
> Absolutely. And it's one of the things that led me to 
> write what I did earlier about darshan experiences. One
> of the most powerful -- and surprising -- such experiences
> I ever had was in Santa Fe, attending one of the Lannan
> Lecture series, a reading and Q&A session with Toni Morrison
> and Michael Ondaatje. They are very, very, very different
> kinds of writers, and whoever thought of putting them on
> the same stage together was a genius. Morrison is a bit of
> a plotter, and a plodder. She researches and outlines every-
> thing she writes, excruciatingly, and only starts writing
> when she's sure that she has all her ducks in a row. 
> Ondaatje, on the other hand, is a poet. He writes when
> the inspiration strikes him, without preparation and with-
> out planning. The dynamic was seriously Tantric.
> 
> And I found myself sitting in the audience high as a kite,
> my state of attention shifted radically from where it was
> at when I walked into the room. And I found myself sitting
> there having to *deal* with that. The only times in my life
> this had ever happened to me before were in spiritual set-
> tings -- a satsang or a lecture with a visiting teacher or
> out in the desert in the middle of the night with Rama or
> Cachora, that sort of thing. And yet there was no doubt 
> that my attention had just been abruptly shifted in the 
> same way in this room.
> 
> It was a puzzler. I'm pretty sure that Toni Morrison, as 
> sweet as she is and as good a writer as she is, was not up 
> there on stage thinking that she's "giving darshan." I'm 
> pretty sure that this thought never crossed Michael Ondaatje's
> mind, either. And yet darshan is what happened. 
> 
> What I took away from the situation was the aspect of
> "resonance" that I wrote about earlier, but also another
> metaphor. As a writer myself, it was as if I had been sitting 
> in a room with two writers who were "firing on more cylinders" 
> than I had been before seeing them. Hearing their words and 
> sitting in the aura of their mindset and hearing and feeling
> the ways that they *thought*, I was somehow "reminded" of 
> similar ways of thinking inside myself, ways and modes of 
> thought that I hadn't been using up till then. Seeing them
> in someone else had somehow "awakened" them in me.
> 
> That's how I think darshan works.
> 
> We encounter someone or something or some place in the
> world that is using more of its potential than we are, in
> certain ways. We might be using more of *our* potential
> in different ways, but these people or objects or places
> are tapped into something *else*, something latent inside 
> ourselves but that we as individuals have not yet fully 
> activated or realized. And interestingly, just the 
> *recognition* of this potential in another person or object
> or place seems to be enough to "awaken" it in ourselves.
> 
> > Doesn't really much matter, I guess, but who doesn't love to be 
> > high, exalted, to glow from within?  I feel certain that there 
> > are folks like that wandering around whose interior hum could 
> > innocently reset my own(Maughm's Larry Darrell pulling up in 
> > his taxi and asking "Where to?"); just never ran across one 
> > of them myself.
> 
> Keep looking. They're out there. *Very* out there.  :-)
> 
> 
> > **
> > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> 
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "Marek Reavis" 
<reavismarek@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Certainly the mindset (of the darshan receiver) and the 
setting 
> > are 
> > > > factors which provide a fertile ground for the experience of 
a 
> > > > purported saint's darshan.  Most interesting to me would be 
the 
> > > > occassion in which the darshan came from an unexpected 
source, 
> > i.e., 
> > > > one that neither the darshan receiver anticipated and was in 
no 
> > > > other 
> > > > way elevated or singled out from the background as 
a 'possible' 
> > or 
> > > > anticipatory source; in other words, not someone on stage or 
> > sitting 
> > > > elevated on a dias, or behind a microphone covered in 
garlands, 
> > etc.  
> > > > This would be the unprepossesing, humble saint type of 
darshan -- 
> > > > illumination radiating from someone shining bright in his or 
her 
> > own 
> > > > effulgence.  Has anyone ever experienced anything like that?
> > > 
> > > I've had many such experiences, and they all 
> > > contributed to the way I phrased my post on
> > > this subject earlier. In terms of "unexpected
> > > darshan" in the presence of objects, my strong-
> > > est experience of this was at a museum in Albu-
> > > qurque, New Mexico. There was an exhibit of
> > > Tibetan art there, and for some reason I'd been
> > > putting off checking it out, thinking, "How good
> > > could an exhibition of Tibetan art be in *Albu-
> > > querque*, ferchrissakes.
> > > 
> > > Boy, was I wrong. It turns out that the show was
> > > curated by the most famous curator of Tibetan art
> > > on the planet. He had retired a few years earlier,
> > > but was coaxed out of retirement to do this show,
> > > with the challenge, "Do something you've never 
> > > done before." So he mounted a show of objects that
> > > had never been displayed in public before. All were
> > > from private collections, and had been for decades,
> > > in some cases hundreds of years.
> > > 
> > > But I didn't know any of this. I was just taking
> > > some woman friend of a friend to the Albuquerque
> > > airport as a favor. I hate to say this, but 1) she
> > > talked incessantly, and 2) she had nothing to say
> > > when she talked. And I was stuck with her during
> > > this trip to the museum. Suffice it to say that I
> > > was *not* in a mood-making mood or had "set myself
> > > up" for any kind of spiritual experience.
> > > 
> > > But ten feet inside the door of the museum and it
> > > hit me like a ton of bricks. I literally had to
> > > find a bench and sit down, the silence and light
> > > were that intense. And I wasn't the only one to
> > > notice. I'd see "straight" tourists stand in front
> > > of a centuries-old lapis lazuli Buddha and go weak
> > > in the knees and have to be supported by their 
> > > spouses. They just didn't know what was happening
> > > to them. *Very* powerful experience, and as you
> > > say, completely unexpected.
> > > 
> > > During the times I studied with the Rama guy, I 
> > > had quite a few instances of "unexpected darshan"
> > > with him. One night I was waiting in line for a 
> > > movie in Westwood with my girlfriend and suddenly
> > > everything "went gold." It stopped both of us in
> > > our tracks and in our conversation. The light had
> > > gotten "lively" and we both felt a profound shift
> > > in our states of attention. We were talking about
> > > it when Rama snuck up behind us and poked me in
> > > the side and said, "Gotcha." He was like that.  :-)
> > > 
> > > Lots of similar experiences in places of power that
> > > I didn't *know* were places of power beforehand. 
> > > I'd just go there out of curiosity and find myself
> > > settling into meditative or clear-witnessing states.
> > > 
> > > Is that the sort of thing you were asking about?
> > >
> >
>


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